Souhegan's Situation

Would anybody who's seen Souhegan play this year like to weigh-in on why you think they currently sit at 1-5 (0-3 in D3)?

I have seen them play several times, and I can think of a couple of things that really stand out for me:

1. No cohesiveness on offense. They run shotgun spread and then they get into the Power-I and Straight-T. In years past, Souhegan has always had both packages, but it was clear they were a "spread" offense first, and the full-house sets were for short yardage, goal line, and 2-point attempts. Now, they seem like they can't make up their mind about what their base is.

2. No clear QB. I was at the Portsmouth game and they traded 2 QB's in and out all game, and neither could get much of a rhythm. Now, I hear they're trading THREE kids in and out. That's self-defeating in my opinion. None of those three kids is going to get the confidence, reps or rhythm they need to be successful...so it's kind of a self-fufilling prophecy.

3. No discipline. I saw a kid come back to the sideline at one point in the Portsmouth game and throw his helmet on the ground hard. Nobody said anything to him about it. That's an embarassing way for a kid from a 3-peat championship team to act.

4. It seems like Souhegan doesn't know how to deal with football games when they don't have superior athletes or a dominating offense. It's kind of like the kid who plays Madden NFL Football on "easy" for years and beats the computer 72-0 every game, and now suddenly the kid is playing against other "live" opponents who are actually good...and the kid throws a hissy fit and doesn't know how to react. There's NO WAY Souhegan is that "bad" that they should have been anniahlated 2 weeks in a row. It's like they've given up or something.



Any other thoughts?

Agree on pretty much everything you've said SofaKing. The Qb situation to me is baffling. Both have different skill sets and the way they run the spread is more pass dominant so when they put the other kid in for Mccormick the offense doesn't seem to complement his skill set (didn't know there was a 3rd in the mix) Again there spread is not run in a way where Trey Trap and Read are really there as an option, a lot of the times they're in trips, or Open Double Slot, which you can run out of but you need a talented back and you need to run a zone blocking type of scheme, also helps when you have a back that can run in that type of offense.

I have only seen them go to the T this year in those short yardage situations, and 2pt conversions, but if they are mixing that in more it really again doesn't make sense to me as they don't have an overwhelmingly large line (especially in comparison to past years) If they are using the power I that makes no sense at all. The power I for the most part you are relying on a large line and two good blocking backs coming through the hole another thing they don't really have good blocking backs.

I said this earlier in the season they don't have a go to player, Chininis is a solid player very fast but he can't carry the load of an offense. Also Souhegan's spread offense when they pass (at least when i've seen them) is trying to go vertical, this team in my mind needs to try and hit underneath, sustain a drive get some first downs, the big play will open up if you keep dinking and dunking them. Even if there offense was a Spread to run they don't have a back to go too in my mind, but even if they wanted to the way they're trying to run the ball currently is poor and really you don't have to pay to much attention to it as the D-lines of opposing teams just eat it up as it's not being blocked in a way to open holes for there backs.

Souhegan should bounce back this week against Pembroke, then a big game against Milford. There only hope at going to the playoffs now is to run the table if they lose any of these upcoming games they're likely done and since I've been following HS football they haven't missed the playoffs so I have no clue when the last time that has happened. (only real threats Milford and Bedford)

The QB situation is a disaster, but the problem is they cannot have McCormick. I did not see their game last week but the few times I have seen him have been awful, and at this point in this season I want to say he has something like 4 TD and 12 INT..OUCH. As for running the ball, they have been using a freshman, Learned, and he's okay but the line is not a run-blocking line, and he still needs maturation as a back. Quite frankly I do not see why they have not taken a chance and put Chinninis in the backfield, he is the only bright spot on their team at this point.

E.I.R. wrote:The QB situation is a disaster, but the problem is they cannot have McCormick. I did not see their game last week but the few times I have seen him have been awful, and at this point in this season I want to say he has something like 4 TD and 12 INT..OUCH. As for running the ball, they have been using a freshman, Learned, and he's okay but the line is not a run-blocking line, and he still needs maturation as a back. Quite frankly I do not see why they have not taken a chance and put Chinninis in the backfield, he is the only bright spot on their team at this point.

They used Chininis in the T and Power I when they played Goffstown, and that's how he ended up injured. He's not a RB-type (at lesat, certinly not out of power run sets) and doesn't have the durability to pound the rock.

bigman44 wrote:Agree on pretty much everything you've said SofaKing. The Qb situation to me is baffling. Both have different skill sets and the way they run the spread is more pass dominant so when they put the other kid in for Mccormick the offense doesn't seem to complement his skill set (didn't know there was a 3rd in the mix) Again there spread is not run in a way where Trey Trap and Read are really there as an option, a lot of the times they're in trips, or Open Double Slot, which you can run out of but you need a talented back and you need to run a zone blocking type of scheme, also helps when you have a back that can run in that type of offense.

I have only seen them go to the T this year in those short yardage situations, and 2pt conversions, but if they are mixing that in more it really again doesn't make sense to me as they don't have an overwhelmingly large line (especially in comparison to past years) If they are using the power I that makes no sense at all. The power I for the most part you are relying on a large line and two good blocking backs coming through the hole another thing they don't really have good blocking backs.

I said this earlier in the season they don't have a go to player, Chininis is a solid player very fast but he can't carry the load of an offense. Also Souhegan's spread offense when they pass (at least when i've seen them) is trying to go vertical, this team in my mind needs to try and hit underneath, sustain a drive get some first downs, the big play will open up if you keep dinking and dunking them. Even if there offense was a Spread to run they don't have a back to go too in my mind, but even if they wanted to the way they're trying to run the ball currently is poor and really you don't have to pay to much attention to it as the D-lines of opposing teams just eat it up as it's not being blocked in a way to open holes for there backs.

Souhegan should bounce back this week against Pembroke, then a big game against Milford. There only hope at going to the playoffs now is to run the table if they lose any of these upcoming games they're likely done and since I've been following HS football they haven't missed the playoffs so I have no clue when the last time that has happened. (only real threats Milford and Bedford)

I think the big issue with the spread sets for Souhegan is that they have relied almost entirely on the screen game in the past (and then vertical passing as you pointed out), and they are not very good with that this year. In fact, I think a number of McCormack's INT's have come on screen passes that he rushed or panicked on. They just don't execute them well.

I actually have a lot of respect for Souhegan this year. Are they where they want to be? Of course not.
However this school has put together a very respectable schedule. They have lost to the Top 3 teams in their division, so clearly they have had the toughest schedule in DIII, not too mention they are all undefeated. Keep in mind that two of those losses came on the road. They went to Concord a team they should beat, clearly a let down game, but it is a school two divisions higher, and a team that beat Londonderry. Which is Milford's 2011 claim to fame. They also battled a team from Central that may very well make the playoffs in DI. All of those losses are nothing to sneeze at.
Now the good news, their schedule is a fairly easy now. Yes they go to Milford, get Milford behind early in that game, and Milford is toast. If Milford falls behind against any team that has some talent, they will lose. Milford has a weak passing game, a weak running game (terrible in the red zone, and worse within 5 yards) and has only beat the two teams in DIII that they should, one win between the two. What should we call them perennial cellar dwellers. This is a classic situation of Milford having an easy schedule and Souhegan's has been tough so far. They also play Bedford a team both of you called overrated. However, Milford will also be playing this overrated Bedford team. This Bedford team will throw the ball, also something Milford doesn't handle well, pass coverage. Doesn't natter who is playing, they have all been burnt this year.
It just may come down to the Milford-Souhegan game for the final playoff spot. Lets hope that Milford was not exposed last week in their blowout loss to Portsmouth. No huddle is one way to beat Milford, their Defense was tired and lifeless after half-time last week. Milford has a great D-line, but screen passes and pitches to the outside of the field can wear this team down.
EIR I understand your frustration with the Souhegan player throwing his helmet on the ground at a game. Just tell me a game that that doesn't happen at least once? Players throw their helmets all the time on the sidelines. You just caught this player. It is strange that you have never seen this before.

It wasn't me that complained about the thrown helmet though I seeit all the time. BG lineman did it last week. He'll I used to get away with it on occasion when I played.

I'm not so sure the damage hasn't been done at Souhegan. Regardless of "toughness of schedule," Souhegan has given up 98 points in the last 10 quarters and scored zero (21-0 second half at Goffstown, 35-0 against H/B, 42-0 against Central). In contrast, Central nearly lost to Portsmouth, who only beat Souhegan by a TD back in week 2. And, I don't even want to take a guess at what their turnover differential is.

This kind of thing is usually a sign of confidence erroding and kids not handling adversity well. You'd have to hope that Souhegan is able to get some wins out of Pelham (should be a cake walk), ConVal, and Pembroke...becuase in this state they won't beat Milford or Bedford if their heart is gone. Talent aside, if they've already packed it in, it OVA.

I think they're having trouble dealing with not being an unstoppable machine. This is the first time in 4 years they haven't been. These kids don't know what it's like to lose. I hope they're not just shutting down.

As someone who has seen every SHS game for a couple years now (with 2 kids attending SHS (neither are players) I may see things through "rose colored glasses") maybe I can shed some light on the "Souhegan situation" and clear up a bit of confusion...

Clearly they do not have the same top-level talent that they have had in past years. For the past 3 or so years, SHS produced teams that could compete in DII/DI (compete, not walk to a championship. I don't want to start an SHS vs BG debate) if they were able to avoid major injuries, which is a big if when you play a DI/DII schedule. They have been head and shoulders above DIII during the 3 straight championships. This year, they have similar talent to most DIII teams. The biggest reason for SHS's slow start is the fact that last year they sent 6-8 kids to play low level (DII/DIII) college football... this year they won't. Look at any other reason for "why isn't SHS dominating" and it will all come back to this.

Also, while the offense hasn't been very good, there has been little talk about their D (or lack thereof). Points allowed in each game: 31, 22, 21, 35, 42. Add those numbers up and you don't get "championship defense" as the answer. They simply can not play any pass defense. In years past, the O got the attention because they put up huge numbers but they also had a suffocating defense. They don't seem to have that this year and I think it goes back to my first point about a slight dip in talent.

Offensively TOs are killing them. Whenever the start moving the ball something goes wrong. I think this is the reason you are seeing more and more under center T/I sets. Bigman, I've got to disagree with the fact that the line is "undersized". Are they smaller than they have been in the past? Yes, but they aren't any smaller than most D3 lines. HS football is much about technique than size in my eyes, especially at that level. If you wait around for a line of 250lbers you'll find yourself waiting for a long time. Heck SHS ran for over 200 yards using the T/I against G-Town and scored most of their TDs against Concord in T sets (granted they were short runs inside the 15).

I do agree that they have had the toughest D3 schedule. But they were in the PHS game despite committing 5-8 TOs, had a 14-0 4th Q lead against G-Town, and then got blownout at HB. I know most teams have "if this happened of if that happened" stories but we could easily be talking about a 2-1/1-2 SHS team still in the hunt for a home playoff game and asking if HB is the class of D3. With Conval, Pembroke and Pelham still left that should be 3 wins. If the beat both Bedford and Milford they should make the playoffs. For the most part they control their own destiny, unless Milford is able to upset BOTH HB and G-Town. The biggest question will be if the kids believe they can still win a game after the last two weeks. If they do and they can get things right they will be the most dangerous 4 seed D3 has seen in a while. They aren't "98-7 in 10 quarters" bad. (It was actually 7-0 at the half against G-Town SofaKing IIRC)

Outside of the dip in talent (not meant to knock current SHS players, SHS is just coming off an extreme peak in terms of talent) I think a lot of credit needs to go to the rest of D3 teams for closing the gap in terms of talent. Anyone who has seen HB, G-Town, Bedford, and Portsmouth play over the last 3 years should know that all of these teams have improved greatly. Some steadily like HB (who used to line up wrong and could barely get a handoff exchanged cleanly) Bedford (overrated but still a new school who made a big jump from where they were year 1) and Portsmouth (consistently better each year) while G-Town made the jump with a coaching change. 3 years ago, SHS vs PHS was the only quality game in D3. Everything else looked like pop warner with bigger kids. Now you have 6 teams that play good football (by D3 standards). More credit goes to the kids from HB, Milford, Portsmouth, Goffstown and Bedford for putting in the time and effort to close the gap then blame goes to SHS.

For what its worth here is my D3 predictions for the playoff future:
1)PHS
2)G-Town
3)HB
4)SHS

I think we all figured SHS and PHS would meet in the playoffs... not sure any of us thought we would see it in the Semi's

Good post D3fAN84. Thanks for the d3 insight. AS sofaking has mentioned, it usually comes down to who has more athletes. Souhegan has had quite a few the last few years.

D3Fan84 wrote:As someone who has seen every SHS game for a couple years now (with 2 kids attending SHS (neither are players) I may see things through "rose colored glasses") maybe I can shed some light on the "Souhegan situation" and clear up a bit of confusion...

Clearly they do not have the same top-level talent that they have had in past years. For the past 3 or so years, SHS produced teams that could compete in DII/DI (compete, not walk to a championship. I don't want to start an SHS vs BG debate) if they were able to avoid major injuries, which is a big if when you play a DI/DII schedule. They have been head and shoulders above DIII during the 3 straight championships. This year, they have similar talent to most DIII teams. The biggest reason for SHS's slow start is the fact that last year they sent 6-8 kids to play low level (DII/DIII) college football... this year they won't. Look at any other reason for "why isn't SHS dominating" and it will all come back to this.

Also, while the offense hasn't been very good, there has been little talk about their D (or lack thereof). Points allowed in each game: 31, 22, 21, 35, 42. Add those numbers up and you don't get "championship defense" as the answer. They simply can not play any pass defense. In years past, the O got the attention because they put up huge numbers but they also had a suffocating defense. They don't seem to have that this year and I think it goes back to my first point about a slight dip in talent.

Offensively TOs are killing them. Whenever the start moving the ball something goes wrong. I think this is the reason you are seeing more and more under center T/I sets. Bigman, I've got to disagree with the fact that the line is "undersized". Are they smaller than they have been in the past? Yes, but they aren't any smaller than most D3 lines. HS football is much about technique than size in my eyes, especially at that level. If you wait around for a line of 250lbers you'll find yourself waiting for a long time. Heck SHS ran for over 200 yards using the T/I against G-Town and scored most of their TDs against Concord in T sets (granted they were short runs inside the 15).

I do agree that they have had the toughest D3 schedule. But they were in the PHS game despite committing 5-8 TOs, had a 14-0 4th Q lead against G-Town, and then got blownout at HB. I know most teams have "if this happened of if that happened" stories but we could easily be talking about a 2-1/1-2 SHS team still in the hunt for a home playoff game and asking if HB is the class of D3. With Conval, Pembroke and Pelham still left that should be 3 wins. If the beat both Bedford and Milford they should make the playoffs. For the most part they control their own destiny, unless Milford is able to upset BOTH HB and G-Town. The biggest question will be if the kids believe they can still win a game after the last two weeks. If they do and they can get things right they will be the most dangerous 4 seed D3 has seen in a while. They aren't "98-7 in 10 quarters" bad. (It was actually 7-0 at the half against G-Town SofaKing IIRC)

Outside of the dip in talent (not meant to knock current SHS players, SHS is just coming off an extreme peak in terms of talent) I think a lot of credit needs to go to the rest of D3 teams for closing the gap in terms of talent. Anyone who has seen HB, G-Town, Bedford, and Portsmouth play over the last 3 years should know that all of these teams have improved greatly. Some steadily like HB (who used to line up wrong and could barely get a handoff exchanged cleanly) Bedford (overrated but still a new school who made a big jump from where they were year 1) and Portsmouth (consistently better each year) while G-Town made the jump with a coaching change. 3 years ago, SHS vs PHS was the only quality game in D3. Everything else looked like pop warner with bigger kids. Now you have 6 teams that play good football (by D3 standards). More credit goes to the kids from HB, Milford, Portsmouth, Goffstown and Bedford for putting in the time and effort to close the gap then blame goes to SHS.

For what its worth here is my D3 predictions for the playoff future:
1)PHS
2)G-Town
3)HB
4)SHS

I think we all figured SHS and PHS would meet in the playoffs... not sure any of us thought we would see it in the Semi's

Great post!!!

Sorry if my intel on the G-town game was inaccurate. I didn't remember it very clearly and thought it was a halftime cutoff in scoring (I thought it was 14-0 at half and G-town scored 21 unanswered).

I agree with the thought that the other D3 schools have closed the gap well. H/B has come the furthest, probably, as they were a 1-win D4 team before coming up to D3 in 2008. I said in an earlier post that I actually expect Souhegan to run the table and make the playoffs. In fact, my playoff prediction was the same as yours, except with H/B second and G-town third...mainly becuase G-Town is much more of a one-man band (QB Connor Benjamin) than H/B, and I think that once defenses figure out a solid game plan to contain him, they will be vulnerable. H/B on the other hand has shown tremendous balance on offense (2 RB's who average over 100 yards per game each and a QB who averages 100 yards per game), has scored twice on special teams, has only turned the ball over once all season and I believe leads the division in fewest points allowed thus far. G-Town / Milford, Milford / HB, and HB / G-Town will be interesting games to say the least.

The second half will be VERY INTERSTING!!!

I respect that you don't want to get into a BG-SHS match here, so I'll leave past teams out of here, but I have a fun idea. Instead of playing a MA team they won't have a shot against most years (that 2009 team was one of the best in state history, don't expect that again anytime soon), why doesn't BG keep their 2nd out of division game in-state and play against Souhegan? With the exception of this year, I think it would prove to be a really good game between two perennial powerhouses. I'd rather not see BG waste a week, get injured, and lose confidence against a MA team when they have a perfectly competitive game 20 minutes down the road in Amherst. Anyone else have an opinion?

I'm still not sold that, year-in year-out, BG/SHS will be competitive. Teams like SHS and Plymouth do a great job with what they've got but they only have so much. A team like BG gets to draw talent from surrounding areas. I'm not saying they "recruit" these kids, but the quality of education and the success some of their athletic programs have had is a big draw for students/parents. They are more likely to get more kids who are serious about school/athletics while SHS and Plymouth may face a down year(s) in terms of talent and work ethic.

I'd like to see Trinity vs BG personally, although it may take a couple years to get the game competitive each year. A bit of a "Holy War" of sorts that could make for a fun rivalry.

I am not about to annoint Souhegan as being "Back" as a potential D3 Champion. However, they stomped on Milford tonight. The Zebras did a great job of keeping it closer than it should have been, including 4 consecutive calls at the close of the first half when the clock was more often than not at zero.

That said, the ground and pound of Milford is a tough sell when you fall behind. Jones has no confidence in his pass game and he's effectively screwed when he gets down by two scores. He also wins no points with me with his sideline screaming and antics. The Albina kid is a true stud on that team and he played his butt off, on all three phases of the game. The rest of the team, never really showed up.

SHS has some momentum....don't know if it means a playoff spot yet.

It should be interesting, is this the Souhegan team we will see for the rest of the year, or were they just jacked for the rivalry game? It seems as though McCormick has settled in at quarterback, with 225 yards and 4 TD today and 5 TD last week, and that stability should help them down the stretch. But the defense still doesn't have me sold. They let up 24 points tonight and got lucky that Milford could not hold onto the ball, but they let up close to 300 yards rushing. With H/B losing to Bedford today, that game at the end of the season has to look a little more intimidating for the Black and Gold now, but we'll see how they and Coach Beliveau respond.

Many of you completely overrated Milford when they had beaten 3 teams with a combined record of 2-15. Hardly anything to catch ones eyes, but many of you were sold on Milford. I do agree that Souhegans' Defense is a little questionable, however the score was 35-24, Milford hit 24 points with just under 2:30 left in the game, meaning that at 35-17 with 2:30 left the Sabres had some JVers in there. Milford never was in this game, they got an early lead 7-0 which should have bode well for them, but Milford's secondary which has been suspect all year, showed they are not a talented group. Souhegan did benefit from Milford's 4 turnovers which all lead to Souhegan score, which means the Souhegan D was pretty solid. Forcing 3 fumbles and an INT is something many coaches throughout the state would take any night. Many of Milford's running numbers are misleading, when you are losing by 3 scores in the 4th quarter and you continue to run, the D is going to let you. See you are playing right into the Sabres game. They want you to take all the time in the world to score and it took Milford forever. Time just kept running and running.
Boxout had this Milford team pegged since day one, many of you chose to ignore me and that is fine. It is clear to me that many of the ex-players from Milford still hold grudges against the Sabres because of getting blown out all the time.
Here is a better question, can a Coach actually have the game of football pass him by? Not to start trouble, but Milford plays an outdated game. One that if you are not ahead, and with this team, ahead by a lot, you are not going to win.

Last nights game for the spartans was a bad match up. They have no answer for any team that can throw deep against them. They have no team speed what so ever. Box out, they have no choice but to run the ball and control the clock and hope the other team does not complete mid range to deep balls. If the other team can do this the spartans are all done.

They just have no answer for a Chinninis, Gardner, Collins, or Portsmouth five or six receivers. Hollis like Milford was running all over teams with a combined record of 3 - 17. Not sure they are as good as the first five weeks or Bedford is much better and Portsmouth better watch out.

E.I.R. wrote:It should be interesting, is this the Souhegan team we will see for the rest of the year, or were they just jacked for the rivalry game? It seems as though McCormick has settled in at quarterback, with 225 yards and 4 TD today and 5 TD last week, and that stability should help them down the stretch. But the defense still doesn't have me sold. They let up 24 points tonight and got lucky that Milford could not hold onto the ball, but they let up close to 300 yards rushing. With H/B losing to Bedford today, that game at the end of the season has to look a little more intimidating for the Black and Gold now, but we'll see how they and Coach Beliveau respond.

I've watched Milford and Souhegan both a few times this year, and I was at this game on Saturday night.

Here's what I think:

Milford is not a very good team. Their running game is often Albina or Bourne all by themselves while the blocking up front looks pop-warnerish. They don't have much of a pass game at all, and they have no team speed. King, Goudreau, Ibarra, and Forte are not walking through that door. They are tough and they play good run defense, but they aren't graced with a lot of athletes. Look what Bedford, a team that is built on all speed an athletics, did to them. That game was over before half time.

Souhegan is a better team, but also not very good. McCormick "settled in" against one of the worst secondaries in D3. I'm not sure if I've seen a singe DB on Milford's team that would start anywhere else in D3 besides Pelham and maybe ConVal (again, no speed). They let Milford chew up a ton of clock and go up and down the field on the ground which speaks to Souhegan's continuted inability to play run defense (H/B game, anyone?).

Predictions for the rest of the season:

Milford will beat Goffstown, who has REALLY started playing poorly lately. For Goff to be down at halftime to Pelham and to only defeat Pembroke by 11 points is very telling. I saw the Goffstown / Portsmouth game and Goffstown looked like they didn't even want to be there. I think they had less than 60 yards of total offense. And, it wasn't like Portsmouth played great. Milford will get knocked out by H/B rather handily, and then have a nice game against Pelham to end their season.

Souhegan will beat ConVal and Pelham (no-brainers) and get dismantled by Bedford, who just has way too much speed and way to many athletes across the board. Bedford's DL may be the best in the division. H/B's is good too, but Bedford's is just loaded with speed and size.

H/B will give Portsmouth a game, but will have to wait to clinch against Milford. H/B will then beat Goffstown riding into the playoffs.

So, that leaves it looking like this I guess (in my humble estimation):

1. Porstmouth (8-0)
2. Bedford (6-2)
3. H/B (6-2)
4. Goffstown (5-3)

After what happened this past weekend, I doubt Goffstown is very excited about the prospect of playing Portsmouth again. Conversely, I bet neither Bedford nor H/B would be confident in a re-match.

bumper wrote:Last nights game for the spartans was a bad match up. They have no answer for any team that can throw deep against them. They have no team speed what so ever. Box out, they have no choice but to run the ball and control the clock and hope the other team does not complete mid range to deep balls. If the other team can do this the spartans are all done.

They just have no answer for a Chinninis, Gardner, Collins, or Portsmouth five or six receivers. Hollis like Milford was running all over teams with a combined record of 3 - 17. Not sure they are as good as the first five weeks or Bedford is much better and Portsmouth better watch out.

The difference is that Hollis beat teams handily that Milford did not (Pembroke and particularly 14-0 over ConVal come to mind). Hollis also obliterated Souhegan, while Souhegan just beat Milford rather handily (score aside). Milford beat Londonderry, which won't win a game this year (with Dover, Memorial, and Salem left) while H/B beat a Memorial team which just beat Central and will likely finish 5-5. I don't think Milford is anywhere near the class that H/B is in at this point.

If you watched the H/B vs. Bedford game, it was really a BAD pick-6 that doomed them. The rest of the game was a defensive struggle. Also, H/B turned the ball over 3 times. They had only turned it over once ALL SEASON prior to that. Not to take anything away from Bedford...their defensive line was UNREAL all game. But, H/B was right in that game. Milford, on the other hand, was beaten down by half-time.

boxout wrote:Many of you completely overrated Milford when they had beaten 3 teams with a combined record of 2-15. Hardly anything to catch ones eyes, but many of you were sold on Milford. I do agree that Souhegans' Defense is a little questionable, however the score was 35-24, Milford hit 24 points with just under 2:30 left in the game, meaning that at 35-17 with 2:30 left the Sabres had some JVers in there. Milford never was in this game, they got an early lead 7-0 which should have bode well for them, but Milford's secondary which has been suspect all year, showed they are not a talented group. Souhegan did benefit from Milford's 4 turnovers which all lead to Souhegan score, which means the Souhegan D was pretty solid. Forcing 3 fumbles and an INT is something many coaches throughout the state would take any night. Many of Milford's running numbers are misleading, when you are losing by 3 scores in the 4th quarter and you continue to run, the D is going to let you. See you are playing right into the Sabres game. They want you to take all the time in the world to score and it took Milford forever. Time just kept running and running.
Boxout had this Milford team pegged since day one, many of you chose to ignore me and that is fine. It is clear to me that many of the ex-players from Milford still hold grudges against the Sabres because of getting blown out all the time.
Here is a better question, can a Coach actually have the game of football pass him by? Not to start trouble, but Milford plays an outdated game. One that if you are not ahead, and with this team, ahead by a lot, you are not going to win.

Milford's coaches have helped build that program into one of the most consistenly competitive and successful in the division. Just because they don't have a talented team this year doesn't mean they have "let the game pass them by." This is (I'm sorry) an ignorant thing to say. Nobody thought the "game had passed them by" with the "outdated offense" (unbalanced power-I) that they rang Souhegan up with in 2009 to ruin the Saber's undefeated season. In High School, ANY offense which has good players and is well-coached can be successful. Look at Pinkerton, who has literally run the same offense for 25 years. Look at Salem, who runs something very similar to Milford. Look at Exeter, who hardly ever gets out of the straight-t. Conversely, look at the Sabers as they tried to execute their "super-modern high-octane spread" against superior opponents this season. INT's all over the place and ZERO points (35-0 vs. H/B and 42-0 vs. Central).

As a former coach myself, it's these kinds of comments that make me chuckle. More WR's and more frequent pass attempts doesn't equate to "more modern and successful offense." Good coaching and good athletes are what determines how successful your offense can be. Period.

SofaKing wrote:

boxout wrote:Many of you completely overrated Milford when they had beaten 3 teams with a combined record of 2-15. Hardly anything to catch ones eyes, but many of you were sold on Milford. I do agree that Souhegans' Defense is a little questionable, however the score was 35-24, Milford hit 24 points with just under 2:30 left in the game, meaning that at 35-17 with 2:30 left the Sabres had some JVers in there. Milford never was in this game, they got an early lead 7-0 which should have bode well for them, but Milford's secondary which has been suspect all year, showed they are not a talented group. Souhegan did benefit from Milford's 4 turnovers which all lead to Souhegan score, which means the Souhegan D was pretty solid. Forcing 3 fumbles and an INT is something many coaches throughout the state would take any night. Many of Milford's running numbers are misleading, when you are losing by 3 scores in the 4th quarter and you continue to run, the D is going to let you. See you are playing right into the Sabres game. They want you to take all the time in the world to score and it took Milford forever. Time just kept running and running.
Boxout had this Milford team pegged since day one, many of you chose to ignore me and that is fine. It is clear to me that many of the ex-players from Milford still hold grudges against the Sabres because of getting blown out all the time.
Here is a better question, can a Coach actually have the game of football pass him by? Not to start trouble, but Milford plays an outdated game. One that if you are not ahead, and with this team, ahead by a lot, you are not going to win.

Milford's coaches have helped build that program into one of the most consistenly competitive and successful in the division. Just because they don't have a talented team this year doesn't mean they have "let the game pass them by." This is (I'm sorry) an ignorant thing to say. Nobody thought the "game had passed them by" with the "outdated offense" (unbalanced power-I) that they rang Souhegan up with in 2009 to ruin the Saber's undefeated season. In High School, ANY offense which has good players and is well-coached can be successful. Look at Pinkerton, who has literally run the same offense for 25 years. Look at Salem, who runs something very similar to Milford. Look at Exeter, who hardly ever gets out of the straight-t. Conversely, look at the Sabers as they tried to execute their "super-modern high-octane spread" against superior opponents this season. INT's all over the place and ZERO points (35-0 vs. H/B and 42-0 vs. Central).

As a former coach myself, it's these kinds of comments that make me chuckle. More WR's and more frequent pass attempts doesn't equate to "more modern and successful offense." Good coaching and good athletes are what determines how successful your offense can be. Period.

Interesting point of view and one I do respect. However, you need to clarify some things for me. I agree that these coaches have help rebuild the Milford football team, this school has a tremendous football history, once winning 4 straight state championships, back in the late 70's, clearly this is the generation that Built the Milford football program. They actually had future D1 college players on the team. Is it ignorant to say that a game passes coaches bye? Not really, it happens much more than you think, and as an ex-coach you should know that. Then you go into the 2009 win over Souhegan, big deal, only Milford makes a big deal out of that. What has happened the other twenty something times they have played? Milford is like 1-22 against Souhegan and you want to gloat about one MEANINGLESS win two years ago. As a matter of fact didn't that same Souhegan team come back two weeks later and smack Milford around in the playoffs? I do agree Souhegan lost that regular season game, but they crushed them in the playoffs. Not sure I agree with your last sentence either, good athletes has nothing to do with football. You need good coaching and good FOOTBALL players. I will throw out there that the best athlete in the world doesn't play football. Usain Bolt. Just because you are a great athlete doesn't mean you can play football. Larry Bird was a slow footed athlete, does that mean he is an awful basketball player? I certainly wouldn't call Tom Brady the greatest athlete in the world, but I would call him a terrific football player. Is Vince Wilfork not a great football player, because he doesn't typify what an athlete is? Being an athlete has nothing to do with being a great football player, there is a difference. To define more Bo Jackson was an athlete, David Wells was a good baseball player. Do you see the difference?
The problem I have with Milford is that, opposing teams don't even have to watch game film of any Milford team in the last ten years. Coaches say what do they run, well they run the wishbone and the I all the time. They rarely pass. This has been going on for years. When was the last time Milford won a playoff game? I do give credit to Milford for their Division 4 championship years back, however that championship was a little less then filling, see they were playing teams that half the town of Milford had never heard of. Milford lucked out missing playing Dynasty teams like Plymouth (which is a smaller) and Souhegan, because those two schools were in division 3. I don't think Milford has ever been in such a small school division in any other sport that matters. People who are new to HS sports don't realize that Milford was a DII powerhouse football school for years, with talent that is lacking today.

boxout wrote:

SofaKing wrote:

boxout wrote:Many of you completely overrated Milford when they had beaten 3 teams with a combined record of 2-15. Hardly anything to catch ones eyes, but many of you were sold on Milford. I do agree that Souhegans' Defense is a little questionable, however the score was 35-24, Milford hit 24 points with just under 2:30 left in the game, meaning that at 35-17 with 2:30 left the Sabres had some JVers in there. Milford never was in this game, they got an early lead 7-0 which should have bode well for them, but Milford's secondary which has been suspect all year, showed they are not a talented group. Souhegan did benefit from Milford's 4 turnovers which all lead to Souhegan score, which means the Souhegan D was pretty solid. Forcing 3 fumbles and an INT is something many coaches throughout the state would take any night. Many of Milford's running numbers are misleading, when you are losing by 3 scores in the 4th quarter and you continue to run, the D is going to let you. See you are playing right into the Sabres game. They want you to take all the time in the world to score and it took Milford forever. Time just kept running and running.
Boxout had this Milford team pegged since day one, many of you chose to ignore me and that is fine. It is clear to me that many of the ex-players from Milford still hold grudges against the Sabres because of getting blown out all the time.
Here is a better question, can a Coach actually have the game of football pass him by? Not to start trouble, but Milford plays an outdated game. One that if you are not ahead, and with this team, ahead by a lot, you are not going to win.

Milford's coaches have helped build that program into one of the most consistenly competitive and successful in the division. Just because they don't have a talented team this year doesn't mean they have "let the game pass them by." This is (I'm sorry) an ignorant thing to say. Nobody thought the "game had passed them by" with the "outdated offense" (unbalanced power-I) that they rang Souhegan up with in 2009 to ruin the Saber's undefeated season. In High School, ANY offense which has good players and is well-coached can be successful. Look at Pinkerton, who has literally run the same offense for 25 years. Look at Salem, who runs something very similar to Milford. Look at Exeter, who hardly ever gets out of the straight-t. Conversely, look at the Sabers as they tried to execute their "super-modern high-octane spread" against superior opponents this season. INT's all over the place and ZERO points (35-0 vs. H/B and 42-0 vs. Central).

As a former coach myself, it's these kinds of comments that make me chuckle. More WR's and more frequent pass attempts doesn't equate to "more modern and successful offense." Good coaching and good athletes are what determines how successful your offense can be. Period.

Interesting point of view and one I do respect. However, you need to clarify some things for me. I agree that these coaches have help rebuild the Milford football team, this school has a tremendous football history, once winning 4 straight state championships, back in the late 70's, clearly this is the generation that Built the Milford football program. They actually had future D1 college players on the team. Is it ignorant to say that a game passes coaches bye? Not really, it happens much more than you think, and as an ex-coach you should know that. Then you go into the 2009 win over Souhegan, big deal, only Milford makes a big deal out of that. What has happened the other twenty something times they have played? Milford is like 1-22 against Souhegan and you want to gloat about one MEANINGLESS win two years ago. As a matter of fact didn't that same Souhegan team come back two weeks later and smack Milford around in the playoffs? I do agree Souhegan lost that regular season game, but they crushed them in the playoffs. Not sure I agree with your last sentence either, good athletes has nothing to do with football. You need good coaching and good FOOTBALL players. I will throw out there that the best athlete in the world doesn't play football. Usain Bolt. Just because you are a great athlete doesn't mean you can play football. Larry Bird was a slow footed athlete, does that mean he is an awful basketball player? I certainly wouldn't call Tom Brady the greatest athlete in the world, but I would call him a terrific football player. Is Vince Wilfork not a great football player, because he doesn't typify what an athlete is? Being an athlete has nothing to do with being a great football player, there is a difference. To define more Bo Jackson was an athlete, David Wells was a good baseball player. Do you see the difference?
The problem I have with Milford is that, opposing teams don't even have to watch game film of any Milford team in the last ten years. Coaches say what do they run, well they run the wishbone and the I all the time. They rarely pass. This has been going on for years. When was the last time Milford won a playoff game? I do give credit to Milford for their Division 4 championship years back, however that championship was a little less then filling, see they were playing teams that half the town of Milford had never heard of. Milford lucked out missing playing Dynasty teams like Plymouth (which is a smaller) and Souhegan, because those two schools were in division 3. I don't think Milford has ever been in such a small school division in any other sport that matters. People who are new to HS sports don't realize that Milford was a DII powerhouse football school for years, with talent that is lacking today.

This post shows what Milford does.

1. The :"Wishbone" is a formation, not an offense. Milford changes what they run from that set constantly. Last year, it was tons of power game and double-dive stuff. Years before that, it was triple and double option stuff. This year, it's mostly midline option and some gap-blocked misdirection series stuff along with the double-dive stuff.

2. Milford probably has one of the most diverse offenses in the division over the past 5 years (a fact I think that actually hurts them because they're all over the place, but that's another story). This year, I have seen them in 2 TE bone, 1 TE bone, unbalanced bone, 1-back Wing-T (balanced and unbalanced), 4 WR gun spread, and 2 TE double wing with foot-to-foot OL splits. I have yet to see them run the "I" more than once or twice this entire season (so much for "all the time"), and it's not the same power-I they ran in 2009 and 2010 that you are saying "has been going on for years." I've also seen them run some gimmicky power formations, like a split-back with a sniffer against Bedford and Portsmouth. In 2006-2008, they combined their base Wishbone with a 3 WR / 1TE Gun Spread and a GT / Navy style Flexbone offense. Defensively, it's the same thing. I've seen Milford move in-and-out of a 4-3 look, a Bear front, and a 3-4/5-2 kind of look just this season. So, no...you'd have to watch PLENTY of game film to prepare for this team. If you're going to make comments about what somebody runs to try and discredit them, you should probably know what you're talking about before you start typing. In my opinion, if there's any criticism to be put upon the Milford coaching staff, it certainly isn't "letting the game pass them by." It's more about inconsistency in their systems and changing philosophies and systems TOO much (or trying to blend too many different systems in one season).

Also, what Milford is doing this year (power run game, a little double option midline stuff) is prefect for their athletes (excuse me, FOOTBALL players). They don't have a ton of speed, and they have a big, bruising offensive line and backs who are best when going downhill. Getting in the Spread or some kind of Pro-style offense would be a complete mis-match for them. Trying to finesse block their run plays would not be playing to the strength of their OL. They are in the prefect philosophy for what kind of FOOTBALL players they have this year. The other reason Milford is wise to have dumped the Spread is because more than half the division runs that offense right now (Portsmouth, Souhegan, Bedford, Pembroke and Goffstown are all 4 WR gun teams). It gives Milford no distinctive advantage to run the same exact fundamental offense all 5 other teams in the division.

Another point is that just because you know what "someone runs" doesn't mean you don't have to carefully dissect game film. Blocking schemes change, personnel strengths and weaknesses change. Tendancies change. Pinkerton has been in the damn Wing-T since the 70's. Exeter moved into the Straight-T in the mid 1990's. BG ran the triple option from 1997-2010 (different now only due to HC change). Central has been a Pro-I team since I was playing back in the early 90's. Most good teams don't NEED to change their schemes. They execute them better than you execute your defense, regardless of who knows what's coming, becuase they are familliar with the rules, adjustments, and timing within each.

3. Your over-emphasis / sensitivity on my point about the Milford win in 2009 shows your bias as an Amherst resident or former Souhegan player (let me be clear that I have not coached for, lived in, or played for Milford in my entire life). First, as any fan, player, or coach worth anything will tell you, NO GAME is meaningless. If you don't go out and prepare to line up to win every week, you don't deserve to win. The game was extremely meaningful becuase it wrecked a perfect season campaign for the Sabers, and anyone who tries to play that off like it's not important is a liar. It was also meaningful in that D3 teams in general (except for Plymouth, who had left at that point) couldn't beat up Souhegan during that era. Milford went out and did it, though. It showed that coming out and pounding the ball against a finesse team could work, and it also secured a playoff spot for Milford, which is extremely meaningful. So, no....not "meaningless" under any circumstance. Also, I'm not "gloating" about anything. I don't have the right to "gloat." I had nothing to do with the Milford victory in 2009. I was simply a neutral spectator with no particular interest in either team.

4. If you're going to be nit-picking over my choice of words (athletes vs. "FOOTBALL players"), I'll have to enroll in Law School to win a debate with you. Suffice it to say, I was under the impression that anyone who is familliar with the game would understand that a generic term for kids who put on equipment and take the field on Fridays and Saturdays is "athletes." If I need to say "FOOTBALL players" to be interperted correctly in the future, I'll be sure to make a note of it and follow-through for the sake of clear understanding. To be clear, I meant "FOOTBALL players." I'm sorry if my poor choice of words led to confusion.

5. You speak about Milford being a "D2 power" and that "people who are new to HS sports wouldn't know." Well, people who know HS sports would also know that Milford was a totally different team back then, because the HS was actually Milford Area Senior High School, which included residents of Amherst and Mont Vernon. Which means that, when Milford was a power back in the 70's and early 80's, they were basically a combined superteam with talents from what is now MHS and Souhegan suiting up together every week. So, you're comparing apples to oranges. But, people who aren't new to HS sports would have known that, so I'm probably not telling anything you don't already know.

SofaKing,

I agreed with everything you said, except for maybe the fact that the wishbone isn't an offense (there is an offense that is associated with the formation). It's refreshing to read things from someone who truly knows what he's talking about. As a fan of the "three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust philosophy, I agree that a coach doesn't need to go to a 4-receiver pass attack and throw the ball more often if he is to prevent the game from "passing him by." There are plenty of people who would claim such a thing, but I'd accuse them of watching too much of the NFL. There have recently been very significant rule changes to make the passing game more effective in the NFL, not to mention making the quarterback, even more-so than in the past, the center of the team.

The best point of all was that NO GAME is meaningless. I hate hearing people (seems like those from Amherst more often than not) claim that a game wasn't important because they had already made the playoffs or because "It was only thanksgiving day, and we had already won the championship." A real football player doesn't put on his helmet and shoulder pads to go out and play a game half-heartedly, whether it "matters" or not. Football players step on the field to prove something, not because a championship is the ultimatum (don't get me wrong, it's extremely important) and anything that doesn't help them achieve it is meaningless and unworthy of any effort.

My only question is what's a sniffer? I've never heard that terminology used before. Once again, great post.

And for the record, I understood when you used the word "athletes."

Not sure about the previous post, it seems it might be a young child.
First off I need to clarify the Milford win over Souhegan, that didn't mean anything. I will admit it meant something the day it happened. Though Souhegan did not play their starters that game, for the entire game. Souhegan had already wrapped up the Number 1 seed when Milford played them. So Beliveau being a smart coach did not want to risk injury to any of his players, so he sat them, makes all the sense in world. So what happens next? Milford faces Souhegan in a game that matters in the playoffs, by dismantling the Spartans. Souhegan would go on to win the state championship. Hence, from that day on till now, that Milford win is absolutely meaningless. If your goal as a football fan, player, and coach is to win a regular season game, and not plan for your state championship run, then I have no idea what you guys are talking about. A good teams Number 1 goal is to win a state championship. Not risk injury to players in a meaningless game for one team.
So you are a big fan of the "three yards and a cloud of dust", that is great. I am happy that you enjoy the running game. However, not one of you has answered the question of, when did Milford last win a playoff game? It has been a long time, and this year they are not going to the playoffs. I believe Milford is currently 3-5 overall, their 3 wins are against teams with a combined record of 3-17. So they obviously have not beaten anybody with a winning record. Which just brings up another question, when was the last time Milford beat a team that was above .500 to end the year? Was it that Souhegan game back in 2009? Might be.
So now to my point, Milford is 3-5 and will finish 4-6, when they finish the year beating a win less team. So Milford will win 4 games and the teams they beat will be a combined (approximate) 3-25. BIG DEAL. So many of you say that Milford is running the best offense for their team. OK fine, but where is it getting them? No where. So maybe you can changed your offense seeing you are not going to the playoffs. See you have nothing to lose anymore. Clearly the "three yards and a cloud of dust", failed. If you don't beat teams ahead of you in the standings your not going to play post season football.
So yes you win the debate, the Milford win over Souhegan in 2009 was not meaningless at the time, it just took two weeks for it to become meaningless. As we all know Souhegan went on to win a state championship. I doubt very much that Souhegan is ready to give up their state title. I also think that any smart Milford player, coach, or even fan would trade in a STATE TITLE and a loss to Souhegan in the regular season.

Boxout I sense a lot of anger that isn't really conducive to the conversation, and I think that when people refer to Souhegan not caring about games, they are referencing comments that have been on here in the past by SHS fans, parents, players, etc. that they don't like the Milk Jug game against Merrimack and they blame the loss this last year on not caring because of their championship win. What the critics are trying to say is, this isn't the pros, it's high school. If kids don't get excited to play then why bother? I personally have to agree (with the idea of not playing games if you don't care, not that SHS is any better/worse than other teams). I'd kill to drop 35 pounds and 35 years and be able to suit up again, and some of these kids only go through the motions.
As for the Milford offense, do you honestly think they would be any more successful in a spread? I have not had the opportunity to see them play but from everything I've heard they lack speed, meaning they would be playing into the same system as some of these teams that clearly outmatch them in speed. I saw Milford's offensive line before the season when I drove by a practice, and for NH ball, they have some BIG kids. Why not run between the tackles and try to make teams beat you up front? They don't have the same kind of athletes as other schools. As for your comment on athletes, I don't completely agree. You say you need football players, not athletes, and you use Brady and Wilfork as examples. In my opinion, Brady is overrated, let it be known. Wilfork on the other hand, is an athlete. Not the kind of athlete you think of with Usain Bolt and Walter Dix, but try telling a 350 pound guy that can rep 225 35 times and then run a 4.8 second 40 yard dash that he isn't an athlete. Good athletes can be good players in any sport, all they need is the MENTALITY. Larry Bird was a slow-footed athlete, you're right. Hall of Famer though, because he spent hours practicing, more than anyone else. Guy used to sit after every practice and shoot free throws until he made 100 in a row. Guys like that MAKE themselves into great players, but at the high school level you will rarely find that kind of dedication and commitment, so I agree with SofaKing, it's all about the kind of athlete you can put on the field. Also, in D3 this year you have 4 very dominant teams in Portsmouth, Bedford, Goffstown, and H/B, and the rest are basically playing catchup. This year there was a definite difference between the top and bottom of that Division, so I feel like if Milford can say they played their hearts out all 7 or 8 games and they just didn't have what it takes to win them all, hey, hats off that's what HS football's all about.