Pembroke Part II

Hooper wrote:Falcon
To say that the Timbas ruling has nothing to do with others is not understanding what precedents means.

Trinity Brady and Guertin will all be greatly affected by todays rulings because they have students transfering in from other districts and if other districts squak (like Bedford about Pembroke)  many students (including kids playing right  now for Trinity baseball and lax)  SHOULD be inelligible.

You show some bias against PA  in saying they are not connected.

One more time - the NHIAA relies on the INDIVIDUAL SCHOOL to self enforce the bylaws and the Athletic Director is the enforcement officer. Pembroke Academy clearly did not self police and abide by the bylaws in boys basketball. Thus, the NHIAA - the oversight has stepped in and taken action.

Pembroke can only police Pembroke. What happens at Trinity, BG, or any other school is up to the AD there to enforce and abide by. If recruitment has happened (and it has - no question in my mind) they obviously did a better job of keeping under wraps, less blatant than Pembroke has. How the AD's at BG or Trinity spin the stories to satisfy the NHIAA is their business.

If Mr. Timbas were to go to the NHIAA today and claim this has happened at other schools with other kids, then he would need proof beyond "I know this kid did the same thing". You need evidence. You need proof. Right? That is the argument against the recruitment accusations against PA. Where's the proof right? See that's my point in these threads. You can't claim "there's no proof or evidence, only hearsay" on the issue of recruitment (when the NHIAA has the evidence) against Pembroke and then say "but I heard this happens or I know a kid did the same thing at BG" but have no proof to support why Timbas should be allowed to play.

I have no axe to grind here. Look, PA bent the rules in one way or another - they were caught - they opened themselves up to this by NOT policing their own house. I have said it before and I will say it again - Klink and Reardon are to blame on this entire mess... it will cost them their jobs. Alosa will be released, and Pembroke will move on,

Still Falcon.. You keep talking about all these recruited kids, if they have attended PA since 9th grade and live in pembroke, how is that illegal? I know most of these kids and wonder who you speak of, again, other than the two who sat out and paid their penalty, who are these recruited kids currently playing at pembroke? They have all been there since 9th grade began. Its clear you have issues with Pembroke, as you would say "stop pissing on my leg and telling me its raining!"

At Falcon:

Pembroke can only police Pembroke. What happens at Trinity, BG, or any other school is up to the AD there to enforce and abide by. If recruitment has happened (and it has - no question in my mind) they obviously did a better job of keeping under wraps, less blatant than Pembroke has. How the AD's at BG or Trinity spin the stories to satisfy the NHIAA is their business.

It seems to me that you are saying Pembroke's crime wasn't that they recruited but, that they were not very good at it.  That it is all right to recruit if you keep things under wraps and are not blatant about it.  Is that what you are saying?

@Tom2

Falcoln is one of those people who come on these sites and act as if everything he says is fact even if it is not. He is now taking shots at BG and Trinity too without being able to name names or come up with any one particular incident that he can point to.  ..."If recruitment has happened (and it has - no question in my mind) "-- this is the typical statement made by people who have no way of proving what they are writing.  Please give me a name and what was promised to the student to recruit him before you start making this type of accusation.

I hope that everything is settled soon and PA can go and get a schedule and all the schools can now concentrate on how they can keep their players instead of losing them to prep schools. That is a real problem that a lot of schools are facing right now.

tom2 wrote:Still Falcon.. You keep talking about all these recruited kids, if they have attended PA since 9th grade and live in pembroke, how is that illegal? I know most of these kids and wonder who you speak of, again, other than the two who sat out and paid their penalty, who are these recruited kids currently playing at pembroke? They have all been there since 9th grade began. Its clear you have issues with Pembroke, as you would say "stop pissing on my leg and telling me its raining!"

These kids were recruited into Pembroke as freshmen. The fact that they came in for all 4 years means nothing. When the DI AD's meet with Pembroke they asked how many kids on the varsity roster were OUTSIDE of the Pembroke schools as 8th graders. The answer given was 6 (who played this year), all of whom have played Raiders AAU since before attending Pembroke (middle school aged). How many times do we need to go over the same facts that you want to deny as real or happening? Denial of fact does not mean you are right. The DI AD's asked what PA's plan was to prevent this from happening and the only thing that Klink and Reardon offered was the CURRENT plan and policy which they HAD ALREADY not followed. I mean, seriously - how many times do you need this explained. The NHIAA HAS EVIDENCE of recruitment. They are not and won't make it public unless there is some case against them, and then once the case is closed, they could reveal it.

I have no issue with Pembroke - what issues do you have with being honest about what Pembroke HAS DONE! I will leave this forum today - I will keep reading it - won't post until final decisions are made. Then you will see that EVERYTHING I said in here is fact, will happen, and play out exactly as I have stated. Like I said earlier today - there is already one of the administrators involved with this at PA who is "resigning". I will be back to tell all of you I told you so.   

Not in the know wrote:@Tom2

Falcoln is one of those people who come on these sites and act as if everything he says is fact even if it is not. He is now taking shots at BG and Trinity too without being able to name names or come up with any one particular incident that he can point to.  ..."If recruitment has happened (and it has - no question in my mind) "-- this is the typical statement made by people who have no way of proving what they are writing.  Please give me a name and what was promised to the student to recruit him before you start making this type of accusation.

I hope that everything is settled soon and PA can go and get a schedule and all the schools can now concentrate on how they can keep their players instead of losing them to prep schools. That is a real problem that a lot of schools are facing right now.

I never took shots at BG or Trinity... The PA supporters keep relying on the "they did it why can't I" mentality. I have no idea if they have or have not! I was pretty clear with it.

Mr. Falcon,

One more time, you are avoiding answering my point

You say it is a self policing organization.  True.

But when a student goes from one school district to another LIKE EVERY KID AT a Parochial school, then this is NOT an irrelevant precedence.  Because now there are two schools involved.

Timbas has nothing to do with recruiting, this has nothing to do with Pembroke not policing itself. This is about Bedford crying foul and a Pembroke kid paying the price.  It is all about when did the start the 8 semester rule start.  IF Timbas's ineligibility stands, this is far from irrelevant to other schools.  I know baseball coaches lining up to discuss a few players who repeated the 8th grade and are playing RIGHT NOW.  Some will graduate and some will be (or not be) back as Seniors in the fall.

True the fact that a few PA people have not been very honest make this almost Karma like.  But believe me, this decision will be far reaching.

tiger46 wrote:At Falcon:

Pembroke can only police Pembroke. What happens at Trinity, BG, or any other school is up to the AD there to enforce and abide by. If recruitment has happened (and it has - no question in my mind) they obviously did a better job of keeping under wraps, less blatant than Pembroke has. How the AD's at BG or Trinity spin the stories to satisfy the NHIAA is their business.

It seems to me that you are saying Pembroke's crime wasn't that they recruited but, that they were not very good at it.  That it is all right to recruit if you keep things under wraps and are not blatant about it.  Is that what you are saying?

Yes - if that is what you take from that - yes.

Wow!  
So much for level playing fields! 

Hooper wrote:Mr. Falcon,

One more time, you are avoiding answering my point

You say it is a self policing organization.  True.

But when a student goes from one school district to another LIKE EVERY KID AT a Parochial school, then this is NOT an irrelevant precedence.  Because now there are two schools involved.

Timbas has nothing to do with recruiting, this has nothing to do with Pembroke not policing itself. This is about Bedford crying foul and a Pembroke kid paying the price.  It is all about when did the start the 8 semester rule start.  IF Timbas's ineligibility stands, this is far from irrelevant to other schools.  I know baseball coaches lining up to discuss a few players who repeated the 8th grade and are playing RIGHT NOW.  Some will graduate and some will be (or not be) back as Seniors in the fall.

True the fact that a few PA people have not been very honest make this almost Karma like.  But believe me, this decision will be far reaching.

A parochial school has the protection of "religious preference" no matter if the reasons were for athletics or not. You want to be the agency that goes after religious preference education in NH? That would be foolish. Again, Pembroke is not a parochial school. They DO NOT HAVE that loophole to use. That is why the NHIAA never went after Frank at Trinity. Look, the pieces of the puzzle go together this way: 6 players come into Pembroke as freshmen form outside districts who all happen to play AAU for Raiders. Then they had two transfers who were ruled ineligible. Now the NHIAA learns that Timbas was held back as a homeschool student. You are right - Bedford called PA on the carpet, that is what the NHIAA relies on (unfortunately). But it is the system in place, like it or not. But the reality is (this is why states like MA, NY, CT. NJ) have a catholic league or private school league separate from the public schools because the parochial schools HAVE recruited there under the guise of religious preference education.

Falcon. You are again wrong with your facts. How many times do we need to go over it? I do know for fact as I have told you, my son is one of those boys. He was not recruited and HAD NEVER played for the raiders. So your statement ALL played for the raiders is utterly incorrect.
Additionally, do you really think so many boys leaving 8yh grade going into 9th are such superstars that they are being actively recruited? Have you seen what boys that age look like. The players that are there now and are good have developed through discipline and hard work. They were likely scrawney little 8th graders.
Also, as a parent, don't you think that once your child has completed middle school,and high school is on the horizon, you have a right to decide where your child should go? If these parents chose Pembroke, moved, bought homes, pay taxes,why should their child not be allowed to play highschool ball? Its rediculus!
We keep hearing your predictions, here's mine..Timbas will be cleared to play (because its right), Pembroke will get a division 1 schedule and we won't hear a thing from you again because you will be busy eating crow. That's what I think will happen!

I have changed my mind... I think timbas wins...and falcon will have to fire his lawyer friend!

Where's the "like" button, oh yeah that's Facebook...

@Falcoln,

I have to ask you, because you have stated that you have been associated with the Concord area for the last 30 years; why did Ethan Cole, who lived in Belmont play for Concord High School?? Was he recruited to Concord or why did he just not play for Belmont High School??

@ Not in the know
I do not know any of the specifics about Ethan Cole. I know he was from Canterbury which should have put him at Belmont, although I am not sure if Canterbury had a similar arrangement with concord like Hooksett has with PA, where x number of kids could apply to attend - again, I do not know any specifics. I officiated a few CHS games back then, saw him play plenty.

@ Hoopfan
The lawyer I have mentioned is my friend, I have never needed to hire him. Old college friend. No need to fire...

Falcon,
You aren't going to win here, even though you have logic on your side. You are dealing with adults who are acting more like teenagers than the teenagers do. While they rely on biting sarcasm and throwing insults at you, you have tried to use reason and keeping it civil. Good for you!
In the end nobody on this board has a say in what happens. Mr. Timbas portrayed himself as a pompous fool in the paper, but he isn't going to win. How can you defend simple facts such as if young Timbas was homeschooled after he graduated 8th grade, why did they school him at the 8th grade level instead of the 9th grade? He already passed that level of curriculum and there would be no reason at all to repeat it. According to all accounts he had very good grades and did actually pass the 8th grade.
The argument "well everyone is doing it so I shouldn't be held accountable" really doesn't work. It is the same as saying "I'm sorry officer, I know I was speeding but everyone does it, so I won't pay the fine". Some of us get caught and some don't, if you are going to skirt the rules you better be prepared to deal with consequences if you do get caught. Not cry about it and say how unfair it is that they are enforcing the established rules/penalties.
In terms of Pembroke getting a D1 schedule, good luck on that. There is no law or rule that exists that can force a school to play another school they don't want to. That's a losing battle.

NH ball
Could you quote a few of these insults at falcon you spoke of? I. Went through and really didn't see them..I think the discussion has been fairly civil.

The only insults I see are from you.."adults acting like teenagers", Timbas portrayed self as a pompas fool"
Now those count as insults!

Pat Corbin seems to be contradicting himself in this article

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20140518/SPORTS21/140519238/1037/SPORTS21

Three Manchester schools agree to play Pembroke...see today's Concord Monitor

Hoopfan12 wrote:Three Manchester schools agree to play Pembroke...see today's Concord Monitor

That's correct. Matt Alosa also confirms this here: http://www.nhnotebook.com/2014/05/weighing-in-on-pembroke-controversy.html

Great information....Kudos to the Manchester schools for stepping up!

Interesting that many coaches were OK with playing them, and this was more AD's and Principals. Let's hope more get on board and kids can move forward and have a season.

If West and Timberlane are both moving down to D-II, and Pembroke is the only team moving up to D-I, there would be 19 teams in D-I.  Simple solution: Each team plays every other team once.  No home-and-home series.  If teams start scheduling Pembroke, and decide to play other teams twice, Keene would likely be the odd man out, since no one wants to travel to Keene (as one D-I coach already inferred in Jeremy's article).

I don't think any D-I team is "afraid" to play Pembroke, as some previous posters have insinuated.  It's the off-the-court happenings that have led to this controversy.

Great article Jeremy! Hope to read more about your take on some of the tournament games!
Wondering what some of the nay sayers are thinking about Pembroke getting a schedule and Jeremy's article....