Pembroke Part II

Woo hoo won the state everyone knows that's as weak as it gets! Let's see if they win one game at the nationals in fact let's see if they even have a close game and for that matter how much you wanna bet frank  doesn't take them? So like I said name one good aau team at a legit aau tournament that they've won in the past ten years? Crickets anyone?? And now Tom please tell the class how welch is getting a scholarship to Notredame prep when everyone knows they don't give out scholarships? If he was a scholarship player he would be going to college next year. I mentioned your name Tom because you said I would not be heard from again :sunny: 

Well the kids are very happy they won the states, excited to go to Nationals. Pat is psyched to attend such great prep school. Isn't that what matters? Why would you take pleasure in degrading the accomplishments others? That seems strange to me.

Also Why do you say he's not getting a scholarship? Do you really think he's paying 50,000 +a year cash?
we have spoke to several prep schools, scholarship money does not seem unheard of, but you must know more than I do it would seem...

Sorry, one last response
Frank isn't their coach, Matt is and he is taking them..

Tom I'm not, I'm just giving you a dose of reality. I've been there done that I know the ins and outs of nh basketball I've seen it all and more. And all I can tell you if you have skin in the game and truly want what's best for your child you will have to do your homework and look for a strong aau program with real coaching and the latest achievements and top notch players to prove it. At the end of the day you parents will be the best advocates your kids will have if you mess that up its on you not guys like frank or any other aau coach that promise you the world but are really looking to take your money. Kids and parents need to understand in order to get better they have to practice a ton on their shooting and dribbling while getting physically fit along with most importantly playing with and against the best of the best in New England not NH:( it's a different speed and a whole different level of basketball and if your kids aren't doing that why would you expect them to ever be able to? Good luck to all whatever you choose. :bounce: 

Tom if someone told you it cost $50,000 to go to Notre dame prep then you need to bet them that same amount that their off by about $40,000 :cyclops:

Well you sound like you have insight, what program would you recommend?

We toured proctor and it was over 50 k, and they were offering scholarship   money but I'd have to look up the cost of Notre Dame, I'm assuming its similar, very easy to check their website though.

At first glance it does appear less costly than some of the other prep schools,...gotta give you credit where credit is due!

Tom I would only spend that money if I knew my kid was a scholarship player otherwise spend it for his college degree. If he is good enough to play d2 or d1 go for it. Most of these prep schools could be a good fit it just depends on your child's needs. Just do your homework and go and look at the ones your interested in good luck :bball: if it's an aau program your looking for you might be able to hook up with the rivals or mass elite mass premier cmac hawks there's a bunch of good ones it's up to you how far you want to travel. Either way good luck with everything.

Thanks for the info! Your right, I wouldn't spend that kind of money but would consider it if scholarship was involved. More than bball, because some boys are 17 going on 14 and need time prior to real college!

basketballtime wrote:Tom I would only spend that money if I knew my kid was a scholarship player otherwise spend it for his college degree. If he is good enough to play d2 or d1 go for it. Most of these prep schools could be a good fit it just depends on your child's needs. Just do your homework and go and look at the ones your interested in good luck  if it's an aau program your looking for you might be able to hook up with the rivals or mass elite mass premier cmac hawks there's a bunch of good ones it's up to you how far you want to travel. Either way good luck with everything.

I know that 4 area college coaches have Pat rated as a mid II, high III player. His size is not DI unless he goes LOW DI like UNH, and even then he is undersized for them. He does not have lightning quickness to make up for a lack of size, and he weighs about 165?. He would sit at FPU, SNHU for at least two years, and he is small for a Kieth Dickson team at ST. A's. He would see time as a junior at those schools. He could start at KSC, CSC, and Plymouth next year. Any college offering scholarship money would be risky other than a partial. Timbas has the size and ability to be a DII player, and see time quickly as a soph or limited minutes as a freshman.

As for those names of the legend Frank Alsoa has coached a few were DIII players - Dunham, Urquhart - and almost all, transferred from thier 1st program to lower level basketball. That speaks volumes about NH talent level. Not minimizing thier accomplishments, but the reality is our best talent in NH is LOW DI, High DII at best other than M Bonner, Friel, and the Kid at Arizona right now.

I am hoping folks can help me understand a question I have pondered for a while.....In order to play at the D1 level next year, the PA petition to move up needed to be submitted, reviewed, and accepted, which happened.

Does anyone know if D1 AD's or Principals needed to OK that petition? If so, and it was granted, why then not schedule games with PA? If there were concerns all along, as some have suggested, then why approve the move? To agree to let them move up, and then not schedule them has puzzled me a bit. By accepting them in, you are saying they are in good standing?

By saying that, it clearly states in the NHIAA By-Laws (Which the Dave Ryan of Manchester was saying when he defended the decision to play PA) that it is not up to the individual schools to sanction etc. other schools in good standing. So if the above interpretation is how things happen with petitions, then the D1 AD's and Principals are in violation of the very By-Laws they are holding PA to?

Sorry if this is rambling........

Hoopfan12 wrote:I am hoping folks can help me understand a question I have pondered for a while.....In order to play at the D1 level next year, the PA petition to move up needed to be submitted, reviewed, and accepted, which  happened.

Does anyone know if D1 AD's or Principals needed to OK that petition? If so, and it was granted, why then not schedule games with PA? If there were concerns all along, as some have suggested, then why approve the move? To agree to let them move up, and then not schedule them has puzzled me a bit. By accepting them in, you are saying they are in good standing?

By saying that, it clearly states in the NHIAA By-Laws (Which the Dave Ryan of Manchester was saying when he defended the decision to play PA) that it is not up to the individual schools to sanction etc. other schools in good standing. So if the above interpretation is how things happen with petitions, then the D1 AD's and Principals are in violation of the very By-Laws they are holding PA to?

Sorry if this is rambling........

The answer is no. Petitions are approved by the sport specific committee. So Pembroke submitted the petition up which is reviewed and voted on by the basketball committee only. If it passes committee, then the program is allowed to move. Scheduling is still up to the member schools of that Division to accomplish. In recent years scheduling has become way more complex with districts issuing no loss of class time policies, travel restrictions for budgets, cross divisional games, etc... Schools "sanction" other schools in a variety of ways. Some schools will not schedule other schools due to past history, issues with fans, changes of schedule, etc... I know of two DII schools who do not schedule a specific DII school because school B constantly changes game dates if there are injuries to key players in soccer.

Why doesn't the NHIAA adopt other states policies on conflict of interest? Is the younger an assistant coach for the raiders? That right there is a HUGE conflict of interest, in other states HS coaches can coach AAU teams as long as they have NO contact with their own HS players.

I tend to agree with recent postings regarding AAU != College opportunities.... Getting a college opportunity requires hard work not only on your field of play, but in the classroom... Do the research - know what you're up against and where you want to end up. Know what a school you are interested in is looking for. Getting a full boat to Duke might be a nice dream, but does Duke match your needs? Do you match theirs? Think about it - it's a major program, in a larger city, in a very competitive conference. If you're coming from a school with a senior class of <100, then the culture shock of Duke could send you packing after 1 semester. Oh and you'll need pretty good grades just to get into Duke unless of course you're really good... Players like Kaleb Tarczewski (the kid from NH at U of AZ) who fill a need for a school (7'0") are far and few between.

AAU is a business for some and you definitely need to keep your eyes open. Anyone can start an AAU program - all it takes is a credit card, the ability to surf the web to the national website, "create" a team, get insurance, and find tournaments. Last time I did it for baseball - it was fairly cheap once you split it amongst the families. There are also different levels of team certificates which allow them to fundraise using the AAU 501.3(c) exemption. Whether that lowers the parent cost is up to each program. Each player needs insurance - again fairly cheap. After that the most costly parts are court time fees, tournament costs, and official fees. Depending on how fancy your uniforms are - that can add up, but less so for basketball than baseball. Do the math - you'll figure out pretty quickly how much your coach is getting paid. You can almost always find out how much each tourney costs if you go online...

Rolltide01: The NHIAA does have contact policy - I know it's somewhere in this thread or the other one - but generally speaking you are allowed contact in the season before your season. So for basketball - that's Fall. AAU programs "get away" with the contact rule by having someone else's name on the letterhead. Hence the mess we're in today. In the past it seems to have resulted in more of a wink, wink - OK no problem, but not with the current sitution. I assume that has more to do with the number of players that are the same between the two (Raiders and Spartans).

Thank you for the clarification...

I still struggle with schools sanctioning others when the by-law states they should not...just an opinion.

basketballtime wrote:Sox040713 wrote: Let's not talk nonsense. You are talking about a AAU Hall Of Fame and New England Hall of Fame Basketball Coach in Frank Alosa. Matt Alosa is a 10 year Professional player and also in the New England Hall of Fame, not to mention, as we all know one of the best high school coaches in the state. I'm sure not all the kids get scholarships, as each players is different and trying to improve themselves for whatever level they might achieve. Just to name a few scholarship D1 and D2 players that I can remember reading about as a NH and New England sports fan are:

Matt Bonner, Matt Alosa, Scott Drapeau, Dave Burrows, Steve Lavapicello (Sp), Chris Urcheart, Matt Smith, Marshal Crane, Bill Collins, John Viar, Chris Lutz, Becky Bonner, Kevin Harrington, Adam Harrington, Luke Bonner, Chris Brickley, Chad Millard, Mike Miller, Mark Dunham, Craig Shepard, Junior Rohan, Pat Manor, Mike Konovalchik (Sp), Greg LaCass, Chris Tardif, Ryan Gatchell, Jeff Perry (Football or Basketball), Derrell Collet, Alex Hall, Lyndsey Carr, Dan Rasnan(sp). These are not the Division 3 players, just the scholarship players. You can add Pat Welch, Jordan Williams, Dominic Timbas, Max Curran, and Cody Ball to list in the near future.

Sorry tom2 but I have to reply to this joke. Can you please tell me what era were talking about with these players? My grandmother could have been a scholarship player back in the eighties and ninety's for gods sakes!! Not to take away from a handful of them that did play high level college ball thanks to their family not an egomaniac coach. And I'm sure Pat Welch has been offered by now right? And why is it always these insecure clowns take all the credit for any of these guys when we all know it's the parents and the child that deserve 99% of the credit!!! Not some clown auu coach!!! By the way what major auu team or tournament has the Alosa team beaten in the last ten years? Without getting into it with the clueless and insecure my original point was with the thousands of kids and thousands of dollars that have gone through that program surely there would be hundreds of success stories right? Not just a handful of kids from the eighties and ninety's that really became players because and I repeat because of their family not coach!!!

There are kids of all decades in that list. When kids play in a program from 9 and 10 years old until they move on to college shows a high level knowledge of the game and development of players. Kids do the work outside of the program but they get the direction and skill based knowledge in such program. Like you said before, NH is not the best competition when it comes to basketball, and that's why is so hard to develop NH kids into College players. They are few and far between that's why it's even more impressive that the Raiders program has the more College basketball players than any other AAU program in the states history. I do believe that one of the teams last year with Welch on it won the BIG TIME tournament in South Carolina and then went on to win 3 games and advance to the final 32 teams in Orlando at the National championship. That was last year, so your grandmother could not have been a part of those. On a side note, Pat Welch 2x player of the year and 2x state champ has multiple D1 and D2 offers of which he passed on to play a year vs. the nations top prep school teams at Notre Dame Prep. Does it really matter how much he had to pay to go there? If he's playing on that team and getting significant minutes he's a scholarship player as all of ND Prep players get scholarships every year.

Look you seem to know a lot about Welch but sorry it's obvious your talking out of your arse and know nothing. Number one how would you know if there were all these so called offers? are you in contact with the college directly did you see the letters? Number two he would have to get significant minutes at Notre Dame prep if he were going d1 which he would never get sorry to burst your bubble! Nothing against Pat but anyone who really knows basketball knows the talent level at that school is way out of his league. Can he still go there sure but he won't see the floor much. So what's the point of going if he's got all these so called offers why waste the money? You don't make any sense? And your wrong not every player gets a scholarship there nice try but please if you don't know what your talking about it makes you look worse. When it comes to wining aau tournaments surely you know which ones they were instead of just believing they did right? I'm sure you can look it up online and prove that correct? And don't come back with oh it seems they made it to the round of 32 bracket in the bronze division because yes my grandmother could make it that far :face: most top teams don't even bother playing after they lose in the gold bracket. Now the raiders pick,choose and recruit people they think can give their program a good name now if there were a lot more places to choose from in NH that would say something but there are only a handful of programs like Bishop Elite,NH Rivals ect. So like I said with thousands of kids in NH to pick from during all those years I wouldn't call a handful of kids impressive at all in fact I call it a complete failure. Everyone knows Frank wouldn't bring these kids to the big summer aau tournaments year after year why you ask? Maybe he didn't want to spend the money or maybe he knew they couldn't compete that is a question you would have to ask him. But like I said earlier if the kids don't play and train with the talent out there everyone with half a clue knows they will never be able to get to that level. My point with all this is you have to do your homework and be your kids best advocate.

Is talking about this really the best thing you all have to do...

But basketball time is right New Hampshire aau sucks for the most part. Everyone who is legit ends up playing out of the state sooner or later

Wow..harsh!
Pat does have multiple offers that he passed on, how do I know? Because he told me. I also know why he chose prep over college it's not because of a lack of offers. how do I know? Because he told me.
I am sure the coach at Notre Dame knows how Pat plays because the school scrimmages with Pembroke several times a year.
I don't understand all the animosity, who cares if the kids go to division 1 or division 2 or high division 2? I think playing any division is great. The kids just wanna go on keep doing what they love for as long as possible. I don't think anyone is expecting to go to the NBA.
parents spend thousands of dollars for ballet lessons for their children, do they expect they'll become professional ballerinas? I don't think so but it's good to keep your kids busy doing healthy things that they love. It's not so much money that I would consider it a bad investment. I would rather spend 1500 dollars on aau then have my son hanging around all summer. If he happens to grow stronger and more skillful then all the better. Win win

Not harsh just true if you won't to play real competition and get college looks you leave New Hampshire

What I have noticed is that NH people really hate it when other NH people do well or try to better themselves. We would rather insult each other than try to encourage someone to try to strive to be as good as they can possibly be. My guess is that most of the negative posters are adults who never made it and do not want to see any of these kids do well. If it makes you feel better to say these things "anonymously (of course)" then keep doing it, hopefully the kids who read these things will just laugh at them and not take them seriously.

Tom2 all I'm saying is most paents are misguided they get caught up in all the hype spend thousands of dollars on garbage instead of a good product. I dont think NH basketball sucks I know it does compared to the just outside the border Into MA due to better programs and much better competition. So my point is if your a parent and have a pretty talented kid I think you would want to give him the best possible chance by getting him involved with the highest level possible. And not in the know I'm sure is correct there are plenty of jealous parents and kids out there that will bash and hate. However I'm not one of those if that's what not in the know was implying. My son has gone through all this and I know from facts not hopes. He got a scholarship and yes never played aau for the Raiders. And as a parent from one to another I've seen so many parents make so many mistakes that they didn't have to so I'm here to let you know some of the pitfalls. So if Pat and his parents can afford an extra year of riding the pine at NDP instead of getting an education while playing the game he loves so much that is being paid for with all these offers on the table by all means have at it. Either way I hope he and his family have success and hope the kid works hard stays healthy and gets a great education first and formost. :bball:

FWIW Notre Dame Prep is one of the most legit Prep Basketball programs in the country. They take 12-15 kids - its a pretty big deal that he's playing there whether he gets time on the court or not - that is irrelevant. He'll likely improve his game, grades, and scholarship offers as a result.

What are we arguing about again? Have we completed the circle yet?