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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:58 am

To Hoopfan, You forgot about Matt Bonner as the best ever out of NH.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hoopfan12 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:09 am

Hooper check the boys AAU rosters around the state and you will find most have kids from the same schools..kids like to play together...so what. I'd say the track record for a kid wanting to improve their skills would have them seeking out a program with a pretty good track record for that. Have you seen the entire rosters for the Raiders. They do... and have featured kids from all over the state..and they go back to help their teams be successful in the winter.

How many kids on the current Pembroke team have played varsity games for their schools prior to transfering to PA? Now compare that to kids who are transferring to other schools during their high school careers.

Maybe a bigger story is the AAU programs that convince kids to leave public schools to go to private schools. Seems to be a lot lately. Most..majority of kids in Radiers program stay in public schools.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hoopfan12 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:18 am

Falcon..And that matters how? No debating that..but what does that have to do with the conversation...can you read...I said one of the best. Nice job Mr. Stay On Point...if Bonner comes back to coach..he can put that in his resume


Last edited by Hoopfan12 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:32 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hoopfan12 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:20 am

Oh..by the way Bonner..Raider...funny they never tried to recruit Matt...but Luke found god and went to Trinity for academic reasons huh?

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:33 am

Enjoy your weekend boys, I have flight to catch. I look forward to the answers of what alternative process or resu
T PA feels would be "fair" other than leave PA alone.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:37 am

Hoopfan Kids leaving public schools to attend private schools like Brady or New Hampton? Either way, they are private and the logistics are completely different than a PUBLIC SCHOOL LIKE PA!

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hoopfan12 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:39 am

If Matt Alosa coached it you wouldn't think so!

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:54 am

Hoopfan, get over yourself.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hoopfan12 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:56 am

I have sir...you seem to be the know all of recruiting..meeting conversations and nhiaa dealings...have a good flight...I do enjoy the conversation!

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  tom2 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:57 am

good reading material, but I thought he was going away

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  JAF on Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:17 am

FormerFalcoln wrote:Ok JAF, whether I think it is fair or not is irrelevant. It is the system in place! This decision was NOT a committee decision, it was THE ENTIRE MEMBERSHIP OF DI! what is difficult. To understand about that? Schools self schedule the NHIAA asks for the schedules by certain dates to fit into the calendar and organize and coordinate with the officials who are outside contractors from the NHIAA. The NHIAA IS THE OVERSIGHT. Again, this was NOT a committee decision, this was the membership of DI and the membership of DII was ready to do. The same thing. The NHIAA allows for "policing" by its member schools using the ADs and administration to act as NHIAA authority to maintain the bylaws and rules. The NHIAA as a body  steps in when schools fail to act accordingly. Just a few years ago, when a team in boys soccer was not acting in the best interests of the sport, the NHIAA suspended the program for its last few games and the program, AD, and administration had to go before the NHIAA to present a plan of action. This IS the process. Pembroke has been given the opportunity and right to process, and the DI schools were not  satisfied. Not a 9 person committee, 40+ administrators made up of ADs and principals. This is the fair process that PA was given, it was not satisfactory. Let me ask you what you think the process should be? What should the NHIAA and the NHADA set up as a different process for you and PA? this is not a slippery slop or unprecedented as you may think. This has been done in other states, and courts have sided with the oversight associations as they are afforded by law, greater latitude to ensure a level playing field that applies to a large group vs the interests of one school.

hmm... not according to what I read earlier about the basketball committee (which doesn't comprise all 20 +/- D1 schools) having a few schools (called out by name - go back and read for yourself) that strong-armed other schools who were willing to play PA, but now won't for fear of not having games on their schedules.

Interesting you point out how the NHIAA stepped in on the boys soccer program... but yet you feel it's OK for them to not step in on this boys basketball issue? The NHIAA hasn't said unequivocally that the Pembroke Academy basketball team is suspended for the upcoming scheduling cycle (eg, a 2 year cycle of home/away with each school).

The NHIAA should be asking in it's oversight capacity why an eligible member school has no boys basketball schedule. What is the reason for that? The NHIAA in its oversight capacity should be enforcing that other member schools add PA to the schedule since there is nothing that has been put out there that would stop it. Your own words indicate they stopped a season because of issues - that is the NHIAA stepped in... Not the soccer committee, not the other AD's/schools, but the oversight authority stepped in as perhaps they should have (I don't know the reference as I don't follow soccer).

My questions have nothing to do with fairness of the specific/current PA situation, but a more general authority to "collude" against a specific school because other schools don't like something. Again, what's to stop schools from not scheduling Timberlane wrestling? Of course you probably believe people would never move into the Timberlane school district just for that purpose. Much easier to hide a single player on a larger roster than a single player on a roster of 12-15. Sorry Timberlane fans - I'm not picking on you nor do I want to say this ever happened in that district, but what if someone said it did?

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  JAF on Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:14 pm

Hooper wrote:JAF,

you strike me as very reasonable, not a person in either camp.

Do you feel the playing field is level.  Is it "Fair" (might be be a better word here) to the schools who do not have "access" (might be a better word here as well) to do what is being done (whatever that may or may not be) at Pembroke.

Should Pembroke be playing Pelhm Souhegan Lebanon Portsmouth etc.  Who essentially have kids who grew up in a community worked JUST AS HARD and cannot compete with kids from AAU teams banding together.  Say what you want , Pembroke does not have the success they have had without Timbas, Taylor, Maher, Williams etc.  True some of these kids are there by happenstance (Curran, Boucher, Welch)  but in basketball a few kids can make such a difference.

What should be done?  Nothing is not an option.  Twenty two and Tom are correct in that there is alot of angry people lashing out at Pembroke.  Soughegan feels that they were the best team playing by the rules and did not win it last year, as does Portsmouth this year.  They are classy groups, BUT YES THEY FEEL THAT WAY.

What should be done?  My suggestion.  Just schedule them in D1.  No Wilson, he has to go back or somewhere else.  That to me is reasonable.  Neither side would be completely happy but that is a compromise.  I believe the recruiting is over you would have to be pretty ignorant to transfer right now in this climate.

Suggestions, that are feasible?  (attacks on how I am a hater are not productive)

A gee thanks for the reasonable comment... and true I'm not in either camp pro/con PA in specific... My feelings have nothing to do with recruitment or attraction. Unfortunately those of you embroiled in this situation are focusing on that one thing and not thinking outside the box and the ramifications of such a decision by any committee or complete division of AD's to not include a team for any reasons.

What should be done? Simple - create and play a schedule that includes everyone. Stop complaining about how someone else allegedly does things is against the rules. If that were the case, wouldn't the NHIAA have already stepped in? Play everyone and let the chips fall where they may. If the NHIAA decides to step in and say PA is ineligible - they do; otherwise, schedule them and play them. What is there to fear? You may get to next year and find players transfer, get injured, or become academically ineligible. Basketball already has top players moving onto prep schools for better exposure. It seems if you want to play D1 that's going to be the way to go - like Hockey already has faced years ago with Juniors programs.

Strange to think a coach would be wanting to tell his/her team that we're all playing for second place this year. In 5, 10, 15, etc. years from now will it really matter that much to Souhegan and Portsmouth players and parents? Will they remember it? Your kids played youth sports right? Probably won a trophy or two, right? Do they look longingly at it every day or is it just sitting on the shelf in their room or a box in the basement? When I coached my kids from my small town (Litchfield), I didn't think it was very fair to be lumped into a group of larger towns come baseball all star season (Londonderry, Merrimack, Hudson, etc.) in order to get to the next level - they were usually deeper than us... In basketball, I had one very good player and as much as it would have given everyone a "feel good" about playing with similar sized towns just to potentially win a championship - I knew I had to challenge my team and played with the larger towns. At the time, Patrick Welch played for a Concord based team which everyone more or less knew was put together under suspicious means. We didn't shy away from playing them - as much as my eardrums would bleed after playing them - I would rather challenge my team to play at that level (I was loud as a coach, but nothing compared to the Concord coach). It was also fun to watch how everyone's game level and intensity picked up when sufficiently challenged. In the end, we lost in the championship games in consecutive years to Amherst and Merrimack. I know in one of those years we beat the Concord team - I think the previous year he played for an Epsom travel team). None of my players really remember the losses today, but they do remember competing against better teams, working hard, and having a good time with their friends... Their parents may remember longer (obviously I remember losing, but I don't dwell on it)... Oh and my sons trophies are collecting dust and it was only a SHORT 6 years ago... He no longer plays basketball nor do any of his team mates from those seasons.

Sorry, but your comment about classy groups strikes me as a bit odd and quite certainly could be taken the wrong way (as in how perhaps some feel the PA group isn't). I certainly know of situations where parents moving into a town were treated as outsiders because it was felt that the child that also moved in would "challenge" one of the established parent groups children for a coveted starting spot or minutes on the court. From my perspective as a coach and official, I think parents tend to get too involved. Cannot tell you how many parents "coach" from the sidelines... But this is wayyyy off topic.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  bigkidsdad on Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:19 pm

Interesting conversation, I think that division 1 should schedule pa and play them even if pa has recruited the top teams in division 1 shouldn't be to worried, pa had some close games in division 2, they only beat Plymouth by 1 point at pa they'll be competitive, but they won't run the table like they do in div 2

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:44 pm

Great listen - clearly more to the story than Pembroke would like to admit. I had a great weekend playing golf in SC boys... get to Hilton Head and play 70+ holes, it does you good! Just listened to this this AM and it offers even more details than we had before.


https://soundcloud.com/justin-mcisaac/mcisaac-on-sports-4-26-14-pembroke-basketball-discussion

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More info...

Post  FormerFalcoln on Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:21 pm

So - the AD's asked what employment Coach Alosa has other than the AAU program run by his father & coaching PA basketball. Pembroke could not answer that. The documentation the PA administration provided showed that 6 of the top 8 players at PA were not enrolled at any of the sending middle schools as 8th graders, and all came into PA after becoming members of the Raiders AAU program.

These journalists have an unbiased stance, even defend PA as saying they should be allowed to play, but also address the "issues" that they see with the program and the recruitment of players. This is now the second set of journalists on the state level to discuss this on the radio and all 4 of them, including NHnotebook, have come to the conclusion of recruiting going on at PA.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hoopfan12 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:32 pm

What does it matter what his employment is outside of coaching? Bought, owned, and sold a store for profit, and the guy made close to a million playing overseas, managed his money well and he needs to explain his work employment to jerk off AD's in D1?

This is funny.

 Very Happy 


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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hooper on Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:56 pm

It's not that he is an AAU coach, it's that he is an AAU coach for Rob Wilson, Dom Timbas, Kafani Williams, Rene Maher, Cam Taylor, Adam Pressuti etc, etc. He coaches only AAU is his own business. He coaches in an AAU program that sends kids to his school is the concern. Let's keep our eye on the ball.

And JAF I am sorry but your suggestion will not fly. Whether right or wrong they will not allow PA to continue to play with an unleveled playing field.

PA people and supporters can complain at how unfair this is, but it is not going to change. The proof is there, people are not idiots. Fair or not this ends poorly for PA.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  tom2 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:02 pm

it's just very discouraging to be caught up in this mess. And I'm just wondering.... if those kids moved into the town before they even started high school and their parents pay taxes and have lived there all this time,why is that illegal? Williams, Timbas and Taylor have been at PA since 9th grade (Maher graduated). I understand about the other two boys, however, havent they each paid their penance? One sat out a year, the other missed his last year to play. Apx 40 other kids now face missing out on a high school basketball program based on the few mentioned above. I see that I will not convince anyone of anything, however, to me it just seems quite a bit over the top.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Ironman on Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:09 pm

I feel bad for kids who grew up in Pembroke/Allenstown/Epsom etc. who played there through middle school and perhaps freshman/JV, and these kids moving in squeeze them out of a varsity spot. (Maybe that's why they're called "Raiders")

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:10 am

Hoopfan12 wrote:What does it matter what his employment is outside of coaching? Bought, owned, and sold a store for profit, and the guy made close to a million playing overseas, managed his money well and he needs to explain his work employment to jerk off AD's in D1?

This is funny.

 Very Happy 


This matters because of 3 reasons:
1. NHIAA bylaws are very clear about out of season contact with players and when you are and are not allowed to have contact with current or future players at a high school.
2. He is a coach on record with the NH Chapter of AAU Basketball for the Raiders, and as another post points out - he has several of his AAU players also playing for him at PA.
3. AD's (including Klink) are required to police and monitor the contact with student athletes outside of season by all coaches.

I talked to two other DI AD's who were at the PA meeting yesterday afternoon - they were very clear that there IS a paper trail of evidence that the NHIAA has that supports the concerns raised by the DI Athletic Directors. That information is not public, and will not be made public per order of the laws regarding confidentiality for parents and student athletes under both federal and NH Statutes. The only way that information would become public is if there were court papers filed and this went into litigation. In which after a ruling were made the evidence would then be publicly released. The other rumor of "DI schools were strong armed into this" is also not accurate. The 40+ administrators in that meeting voted and it was overwhelmingly one sided in favor of denying a schedule.

The AD's have the right to do so as they do not feel, based on evidence, that PA is playing by the rules of the NHIAA in terms of the eligibility of transfers into PA directly from the Raiders AAU program.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:11 am

Hooper wrote:It's not that he is an AAU coach,  it's that he is an AAU coach for Rob Wilson, Dom Timbas, Kafani Williams, Rene Maher, Cam Taylor, Adam Pressuti etc, etc.   He coaches only AAU is his own business.  He coaches in an AAU program that sends kids to his school is the concern.  Let's keep our eye on the ball.

And JAF I am sorry but your suggestion will not fly.  Whether right or wrong they will not allow PA to continue to play with an unleveled playing field.  

PA people and supporters can complain at how unfair this is, but it is not going to change.  The proof is there, people are not idiots.  Fair or not this ends poorly for PA.

You are correct.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  JAF on Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:19 pm

In the FWIW department - over the last few years the NHIAA has made adjustments regarding off-season contact rules, issues, processes, etc. From what I was told - coaches have to submit a plan and can have 'contact' in the season prior to the season to play. Thus, for basketball - coaches could set up Fall stuff. It's not tryouts, but a means to get players together. Not sure of all the limits to said contact, but it is possible.

I would have to believe that this is mostly in reaction/response to many (not PA) basketball programs/coaches wanting to see their players stay together for Spring, Summer, and Fall hoops. Said programs are certainly well known by the basketball community and are "followed" by basketball media (including McIsaac & Haley from the link referenced a few replies back). For anyone who's been to one of those - you know you saw HS basketball coaches in attendance - usually there was a "parent in charge" taking care of the "official duties", but rest assured that PiC had solid input from the HC.... Legitimizing it for the season prior helps the HC, but let's face it they are also there and "more than likely" :-) encouraging all season participation.

Off topic a bit, but it's very interesting to see how basketball really has become a 4 season sport now. Whether not participating in those out of season teams "hurts" fringe players - who knows for sure. It obviously helps those that have no other interest than basketball, even though perhaps that hurts other sports that may be able to benefit from those athletes... Football coaches love to see their players in the Wrestling/Track programs... Hockey and Lacrosse seem to be intertwined as well. I could see benefits of basketball players doing track or cross-country.

In any case, doesn't seem like this stuff will be resolved any time soon - at least not amicably. Sounds like the ultimatum has been given, neither side has blinked, and we all get to watch the drama continue to unfold.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hoopfan12 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:07 pm

The NHIAA allows coaches to set up small group instruction for players the season prior to their sport starting (basketball can run things in Fall, Baseball in the Winter etc etc)

It is up to the AD at each school to set a number, but it is for skill building only, not mandatory, and not run like a practice. This was done in response to a wide variety of sports running year round activities. Soccer in particular have Fall season, Winter Indoor, Spring and Summer Travel teams. Lacrosse does the same, and many hockey players go onto Spring and travel teams as well.


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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:06 pm

Hoopfan12 wrote:The NHIAA allows coaches to set up small group instruction for players the season prior to their sport starting (basketball can run things in Fall, Baseball in the Winter etc etc)

It is up to the AD at each school to set a number, but it is for skill building only, not mandatory, and not run like a practice. This was done in response to a wide variety of sports running year round activities. Soccer in particular have Fall season, Winter Indoor, Spring and Summer Travel teams. Lacrosse does the same, and many hockey players go onto Spring and travel teams as well.


Yes, and here is the link to see the NHIAA policies and rules regarding the out of season contact rules. Skip to page 10.
http://nhiaa.org/PDFs/2708/4ByLawArticleIIEligibility.pdf

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  JAF on Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:15 pm

Given the nature of today's litigious society - I believe it's safe to assume that the concept/idea of not scheduling PA wasn't just brainstormed at the AD/Principal's meeting... I would guess that the idea was researched beforehand. The peer pressure to vote with the majority still exists... Whether or not some who were ambivalent were prodded into not scheduling we'll never really know since it's all hearsay. The prospect of scheduling PA and then having other schools drop their game(s) with your school because of that is certainly possible and would give pause for anyone to add PA to their schedule.

So, if the solution is to remove Alosa and anyone associated with him in a coaching capacity at PA - does that mean that every player currently at the school is still eligible to tryout for the team in November? So it's not about the kids, then right? Any player that sat out last year is now eligible by NHIAA bylaws can tryout? The "same" team could exist, but just with a different coach. And all the other ADs will then schedule PA. Or will there be more "restrictions" forthcoming?

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Re: Pembroke Academy

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