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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  nhball9 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:53 am

The two Pembroke frenzied fans: it is amazing about what you are putting out there as undeniable "facts" even when they are anything but. You guys keep asking for proof, are the blinders so squarely on that you don't realize that the NHIAA does have proof BUT they are under no obligation to make it public knowledge. Why would they justify the decision to a bunch of annoymous forum posters? Or to anyone that they don't have to?
Do you honestly think that with this type of decision, with lawyers for both sides involved, and the amount of times PA appealed that they did it because they hate the Alosas? Sorry to say, there are facts (real facts) that went into this decision. In today's society you aren't going to do something without making sure you have all areas covered, it simply wouldn't hold up under the legal system. Yet, this decision did hold up.
I also know, for an actual fact, the two transfers did live in the same apartment. I do not know who owned the building, I heard rumors but I don't know that part as a fact or not.
You also mean to say that Coach Alosa had no idea where two of his players on his top-level summer team were going to be playing high school ball? I would be very upset if I was the player's parent as one of the main objects of the summer travel is for the coach to promote his players. How can he do that if he has no clue where the player is actually going to be the upcoming year?

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  tom2 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:14 am

PDll of your facts with all due respect. this is part of the problem a spreading the rumors. I will speak only to what I know for absolute certainty that you are wrong on.Curran spent 9th grade at Central.following that year he made a decision along with his parents to spend 1 year out of state with his father. When he returned his junior year,the Central/Hooksett contract was in conflict. Hooksett has no high school.also,Curran had NEVER been a Raider. He had never met or saw Alosa prior to attending Pembroke. He may become a Raider now that he is familiar with everyone.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  tom2 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:16 am

I sure don't see the edit button! Meant to say Hooper doesn't have all facts.....

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  tom2 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:26 am

Dear nh ball, I am NOT a frenzied fan, I am a parent of one of these players. I'm surprised you didn't figure that out. Yes, if these people are going to cost my son his senior year of basketball, I expect absolute proof of these allegations.as I see on this forum lots of rumors go around . My son never saw, met or spoke to Alisa prior to choosing Pembroke, he was never ever a Raider a Hooper stated. I will be more than happy to state all of this in a court room.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  tom2 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:27 am

Alosa..auto correct Sad

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  tom2 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:40 am

And..if your referring to the statement "dear Catholic schools please recruit my son and rescue us from the NHIAA", if you read the whole thread,I would think you could discern tongue and cheek sarcasm when you see it.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hoopfan12 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:01 am

JAF... I think you just made my point... it is happening every year in multiple sports but does not seem to be catching the eye of the NHIAA.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:10 am

Hoopfan12 wrote:JAF... I think you just made my point... it is happening every year in multiple sports but does not seem to be catching the eye of the NHIAA.

Yea I think I mentioned this way back on Page 1.  The NHIAA/AD Association is setting a precarious standard which is a very slippery slope.  And the poster above is correct - it only becomes an issue if the team is successful.

I'm not sure either side is going to convince the other - in fact - I know they won't.  Until we have some hard evidence  (nobody but the NHIAA and legal teams will likely every know that evidence) we probably aren't going to put this to bed and make everyone happy.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm

If you think there is no proof, then you must be ignorant or just not bright. This is not a new issue. For those defending Pembroke, look at the timeline and the facts we do know. Put the puzzle together and the picture becomes clear:

This started two Years ago with Maher, Taylor and Timbas. The rumors were everywhere. People in Belmont were aware this was happening as was Bedford. Red flag#1

Williams did live in Concord, ask anyone in the basketball circles in Concord. Outside citizens are not allowed to ask for transcripts - dummy up. Only the parents or schools of a student have legal rights to transcripts. Red flag #2

This season two high profile - key words are HIGH PROFILE basketball players transfer to Pembroke from less than competitive programs to PA. Upon seeking the transfer waivers, they were denied by the NHIAA as the sending schools - MV and Londonderry did not approve the transfer citing athletics as the primary reason for the transfer which requires a one year in ineligibilty period just like what happens in ANY NCAA move. You sit a year. This is not a new rule, this is a rule that has been in the NHIAA by laws for decades. They have used it in girls basketball , hockey, soccer, and now basketball all in the last 10 years. Red flag #3

Then, you had in season issues that drew MORE attention to the program - a 1 game suspension for Welch for intentionally hitting a Windham player in the groin. Red flag #4

Running up the score and intentionally dunkin in warm ups against Kingswood - red flag #5

Then you had the championship and post championship social media issues.

Look this is all attention the program has brought on itself. Back in November the DII schools did discuss the option ALLOWED by the NHIAA of not scheduling PA if they continued to see a move of Raiders players to Pembroke.

Now take all of the attention PA brought upon itself - YES they brought it upon themselves, with issues in season. Now they petition the NHIAA basketball committee to move up to DI. they accept it in committee. Then before the scheduling the NHIAA communicates with PA and tells them to attend a special meeting and they tell PA the exact reason why. they invited Klink, Reareon, and Coach Alosa. Alosa does not attend. Klink and Reardon are given tthe chance to present evidence and a plan to deal with preventing the movement of Raiders rosters players to PA. The 40 administrators made up of all DI athletic directors and principals reviewed the plan and found it to accomplish little or nothing in addressing the issue. It was not a heavy handed dictator like ruling. They discussed it at length. Their decision is based on the facts THEY DO HAVE regarding residency problems, transfers, and Raiders players moving to Pembroke for "obvious and clear athletic advantage and reasons" which is clearly stated in the NHIAA policies as prohibited.

It has been so blatant that PA forced the hand of the NHIAA. BTW- this will hold up in court. There are precedents in other states that allow a state organization that deals with oversight of schools or school related functions that are part of the educational pursuits to determine membership or to suspend a program if it is not meeting with established rules and standards. The NHIAA knows this and that is why they have decided to all ow the DI schools to deny a schedule with PA. PA can schedule anyone they want who will play them any division. They need a minimum of 12 in a division to qualify for the tournament in that division. I can tell you with 100% certainty that no schools in NH will schedule PA given the circumstances. Let's face it, this will be the only and last high school job an Alosa will have in NH. He will get fired from PA or he will step down when the kids can't play, the NHIAA is not bluffing. The mere filing costs for Pembroke to fight this in court is more than what Alosa makes coaching. They would spend tens of thousands for a judge to rule in favor of the NHIAA. This will also cost Klink and Reardon thier credibility and they will be out in a year or two. Believe me, very few ADs and administrators are thrilled with them. If the coaching staff of Pembroke aka raiders basketball really do care about the kids, they will resign and move on. Coach in MA or hell, wait for a college job to open and recruit all you like!

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hoopfan12 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:33 pm

You sound like a bitter Bow Athlete/player..what gives...why so passionate about this issue..more importantly this school? You certainly seem to have insight with conversations in NHIAA committee meetings...what the majority of the D1 AD ' s think. Sounds like this consumes your whole day. Beyond the two kids found ineligible this past season...do you have direct proof that kids on the team at PA were recruited? If so please share those conversations as well!

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:43 pm

I am a fan and a follower of NH high school basketball for over 25 years. I am not an AD, principal , or coach. I know how the NHIAA works. I know what they know. If you think I am dumb enough to tell you the details of what they have in thier pocket and that I would put it on a public forum you must be foolish. When everything comes down you will see I was right. I am telling you what is going to happen. If September comes and the team has no games scheduled, the parents will turn on Alosa and the PA admins in a heartbeat and the school board will take action if Klink and Reardon do not.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  tom2 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:06 pm

Dear nhball. I was just saying if there is proof I want to see it. As a parent of one of these kids who are affected I want to see proof and so far, having been very close to the situation I haven't seen any proof. My son certainly was not recruited and even though he had never been a Raider he still made the starting lineup and coach Alosa has been fantastic to him. These are things I know for sure. For fact.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  tom2 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:09 pm

also, if you know how the NHIAA works, as I keep asking, could you please tell me who oversees them? I really Am wanting to know that information and I can't find it anywhere

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  tom2 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:31 pm

And to former falcon..same question. .if you know how NHIAA can you please tell me who oversees them?

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Twenty two on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:19 am

The NHIAA is accountable to no one, there is no governing body that oversees them.

Falcoln - unfortunately your research is inaccurate ....Pat Welch was never once suspended this season, he played in every single Pembroke game. It was not the Kingswood game with the pre-game dunk. Both Central and Exeter boys ran up the score against Keene by more than 50, Pinkerton girls beat Timberlane by 58. But because it's Pembroke it's just unforgivable. In fact, because of that game PA's AD had Alosa bring 3 additional JV players up to varsity to prevent it from happening again. You never got to see the vulgar tweets that Portsmouth students and athletes sent out January 30th (a month and a half before Welchs) after they'd broken Pembroke's streak that were directed specifically at #Pat Welch. All of those tweets were left online much longer than 10 minutes. The NHIAA has copies, maybe you should request to see them.
The boys who transferred in sat out the entire season, is that pound of flesh not enough for you, do you need an organ too? Recruiting is the main topic of controversy, the veiled excuse everyone is using to justify the damage being inflicted on 40 teenage boys, this isn't affecting just the varsity players. The families involved insist they were not encouraged, asked or convinced to move by anyone to the Pembroke district, so you are essentially calling them all liars? To have such insight into people you have never met is fascinating. How sad is it that parents of these boys could not possibly have made that decision on their very own. How ever did they manage to even function before the Alosa's came into their lives is a mystery.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:40 am

The NHIAA is the entire collective of every public high school in the state. There are several committees beginning with the executive council made up of superintendents, principals, and admins. Then the competition committee, sportsmanship, etc... Get the point. The NHIAA is an organization comprised of allof the ADs, principals, and superintendents from the entire state. If PAwere to seek legal action, they would have to take each school in DI to court and state why they should play PA.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:00 am

The Kingswood game wasthe largest blowout in boys basketball this season. In addition, Keene did not win a single game and they lost to Timberlane this year. Stay on point with your program. you keep preaching the idea that the parents did this on thier own. Again, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. If that is the case, let me play along, and the coaching were the reason they came to PA, then it makes no sense. Parents chose a 41 year old coach with less than 10 years experience and one title to send thier kids for basketball. When, Doc Wheeler who has I believe 7 titles and almost 25 years experience or Tim Goodridge who has multiple titles or the guy at CBNA who has won more Than 450 games and has two titles. So with those resumes they chose PA. why? The ties they all have to the Raiders. Come on your argument is just lame that these parents did this on thier own. They didn't because their kids play for the Raiders and someone along the lines is feeding the fire. You keep deflecting to other programs to support your position rather than explain your programs problem with brining in players from the same AAU program.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:04 am

The NHIAA has no oversight. Keep in mind the decision not to schedule them is not the NHIAA it is the entire group of DI athletic directors and school administrators.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  JAF on Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:13 am

Falcon - strange how you say "stay on point", but yet you are the one bringing in pointless drivel about running up scores and things that have nothing to do with whether it's "right" or "fair" for a group of individuals to decide to not give a schedule to a team and then strong arm other individuals to go along with their plan using the logic of you'll get the same treatment if you don't back us argument.

Falcon - if you've watched for 25 years and have deep seated knowledge, then do you really believe it's fair/right for a committee to do this without the explicit support of the overall governing body? Who gave them that authority? If the NHIAA executive council/board feels that PA has recruited - then shouldn't it be up to them to suspend the program? It may take basketballs bigger than they have.

How would you react if it was your favourite team/program that was getting the short end of the stick? Address the real issue at hand not all the facts or speculation (depending on anyone's personal viewpoint) surrounding what amounts to what some could call a "power play". I think by doing this a dangerous precedence is being set. Has it ever happened before? The end result could be the committee's could decide to not schedule team's for "any" reason they saw fit. Is that good for high school sports?

Consider wrestling powerhouse Timberlane - they've won what like 1000 championships in a row :-)... Can the wrestling committee decide well their team is too good so we don't want to schedule them - is that valid? The "primary difference" I see between the two is one has a history of being a powerhouse and has won every year, while the other has less history and teams are becoming afraid of to play them for fear of losing. Is that what high school athletics is coming to? Yes, I know, I know, you're going to say the reason is PA is recruiting - take that out of the equation and answer the question - is it right for a committee for any reason to not schedule a team? I believe the committee shouldn't have that authority - if a program is a member in good standing of the overall organization, then you have due diligence and must schedule the program regardless of how you feel about them. If the overall organization then comes to the committee and says, remove the team from your schedule - then that's what happens. If a team cannot compete in any given season once a schedule is made - all games are forfeits - for that there is precedence.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:36 am

Look, I will leave the posts I have written to stand on thier own. I will not reply anymore until this all unfolds. Jaf you keep saying fair, but fail to see that thelaying field is not fair at Pembroke compared to the rest of the schools. I have spelled put the scenario and how it will unfold. Time will tell if I am right.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hoopfan12 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:15 am

You forgot to add played professionally overseas...played D1 basketball...won a title as a player...and is one of the best players to ever lace them up in NH to the resume. Oh..and has won back to back titles and has two in less than a decade if coaching...not bad hey Falcon?


Last edited by Hoopfan12 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  JAF on Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:19 am

Sorry you have no answer for my question and took to using the word "fair" as your excuse to not be able to answer the question regarding whether a committee has the right to not schedule a team. All that says to me is you have a personal vendetta against PA, so IMO all of your posts are meaningless. Regardless of whether PA is guilty of recruiting you are basically indicating you cannot have or form an opinion on other matters just the one that matters most to you to rail against PA. I could care less if you are right or wrong about PA's situation - the issue of what powers a subcommittee has goes beyond whether you are right or wrong and can have a lasting affect on high school sports in NH.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:45 am

Ok JAF, whether I think it is fair or not is irrelevant. It is the system in place! This decision was NOT a committee decision, it was THE ENTIRE MEMBERSHIP OF DI! what is difficult. To understand about that? Schools self schedule the NHIAA asks for the schedules by certain dates to fit into the calendar and organize and coordinate with the officials who are outside contractors from the NHIAA. The NHIAA IS THE OVERSIGHT. Again, this was NOT a committee decision, this was the membership of DI and the membership of DII was ready to do. The same thing. The NHIAA allows for "policing" by its member schools using the ADs and administration to act as NHIAA authority to maintain the bylaws and rules. The NHIAA as a body steps in when schools fail to act accordingly. Just a few years ago, when a team in boys soccer was not acting in the best interests of the sport, the NHIAA suspended the program for its last few games and the program, AD, and administration had to go before the NHIAA to present a plan of action. This IS the process. Pembroke has been given the opportunity and right to process, and the DI schools were not satisfied. Not a 9 person committee, 40+ administrators made up of ADs and principals. This is the fair process that PA was given, it was not satisfactory. Let me ask you what you think the process should be? What should the NHIAA and the NHADA set up as a different process for you and PA? this is not a slippery slop or unprecedented as you may think. This has been done in other states, and courts have sided with the oversight associations as they are afforded by law, greater latitude to ensure a level playing field that applies to a large group vs the interests of one school.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  Hooper on Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:47 am

JAF,

you strike me as very reasonable, not a person in either camp.

Do you feel the playing field is level. Is it "Fair" (might be be a better word here) to the schools who do not have "access" (might be a better word here as well) to do what is being done (whatever that may or may not be) at Pembroke.

Should Pembroke be playing Pelhm Souhegan Lebanon Portsmouth etc. Who essentially have kids who grew up in a community worked JUST AS HARD and cannot compete with kids from AAU teams banding together. Say what you want , Pembroke does not have the success they have had without Timbas, Taylor, Maher, Williams etc. True some of these kids are there by happenstance (Curran, Boucher, Welch) but in basketball a few kids can make such a difference.

What should be done? Nothing is not an option. Twenty two and Tom are correct in that there is alot of angry people lashing out at Pembroke. Soughegan feels that they were the best team playing by the rules and did not win it last year, as does Portsmouth this year. They are classy groups, BUT YES THEY FEEL THAT WAY.

What should be done? My suggestion. Just schedule them in D1. No Wilson, he has to go back or somewhere else. That to me is reasonable. Neither side would be completely happy but that is a compromise. I believe the recruiting is over you would have to be pretty ignorant to transfer right now in this climate.

Suggestions, that are feasible? (attacks on how I am a hater are not productive)

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Re: Pembroke Academy

Post  FormerFalcoln on Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:56 am

Well stated Hooper.

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Re: Pembroke Academy

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