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Classification of all sports just hit the press

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Classification of all sports just hit the press

Post  Hooper on Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:15 pm

FYI Before Petitioning

Classification of Baseball, Soccer, Basketball and Softball
2016-17/2017-18
16 Schools 25 Schools 23 Schools 22 Schools
Pinkerton 3167 Winnacunnet 1109 Stevens 545 Farmington 299
Nashua South 1875 Goffstown 1106 Monadnock 531 Epping 277
Nashua North 1748 Portsmouth 1098 St. Thomas 527 Hopkinton 269
Exeter 1741 Man. West 949 Fall Mountain 525 Derryfield 263
Concord 1714 Milford 857 Gilford 510 Hinsdale 255
Man. Central 1688 Windham 851 Campbell 509 Newmarket 255
Man. Memorial 1583 Pembroke 840 Pro Mountain 503 Woodsville 228
Londonderry 1579 Souhegan 828 Winnisquam 492 Littleton 213
Bedford 1484 Merrimack Valley 823 Somersworth 482 Portsmouth Christian at Dover 204
Spaulding 1416 Kennett 819 Raymond 447 Moultonborough 184
Keene 1388 Hollis/Brookline 815 Berlin 443 Nute 182
Dover 1349 Kingswood 814 Conant 435 Profile 181
Alvirne 1315 Con-Val 794 Belmont 428 Wilton-Lyndeborough 175
Timberlane 1240 Bishop Guertin 743 W Mountains 402 Pittsfield 157
Merrimack 1231 Oyster River 715 Trinity 398 Groveton 141
Salem 1215 Coe-Brown 702 Franklin 388 Sunapee 141
Hanover 702 Hillsboro-Deering 387 Gorham 137
John Stark 700 Newfound 383 Colebrook 130
Plymouth 686 Bishop Brady 348 Canaan/Pittsburg 125
Sanborn 686 Newport 346 Lisbon 119
Pelham 628 Mascenic 344 Lin-Wood 112
Lebanon 609 Mascoma 340 Concord Christian 83
Bow 595 Inter-Lakes 333
Laconia 590
Kearsarge 566

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Re: Classification of all sports just hit the press

Post  Hooper on Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:05 am

Sorry that's impossible to understand

The basics
D1 goes from Pinky to Salem 16 teams 1150+
D2 goes from Goffstown to Kearsarge 550+ 25 teams
D3 goes from Mascenic to Stevens 300+ 23 teas
D4 Epping down

Couple things

D1 will gain BG, Winni and Trinity jump up

Goffstown spared

Pelham back to D2

Hopkinton in D4

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Re: Classification of all sports just hit the press

Post  SeacoastDad on Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:46 pm

This would be for the 2016-2017 season, correct?  So Pembroke would remain in D1 this year and St. Thomas and Bishop Brady would remain in D2.

I would think St. Thomas and Bishop Brady would petition up to D2, and Bow, Laconia (?) and Kearsarge would petition down to D3.

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Re: Classification of all sports just hit the press

Post  Hooper on Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:32 pm

Seacoast Dad,

Correct, his is for 2016/17 and beyond not this year and not a final product

You have to assume Trinity and BG will petition up to 1
Brady and St Thomas will petition up to D2

Timby will look to bail

I don't know if those other teams will be able to petition down. Your supposed to be really really bad to petition down.

I saw Kearsarge at Epping this summer and they looked decent

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Re: Classification of all sports just hit the press

Post  JAF on Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:08 pm

Just figured I'd post a how they do it here type comparison... In NC, they have 4 classifications (1A -> 4A, where 4A is like D1).

Anyway, during a basketball meeting other night the speaker mentioned they'll be doing a reclassification soon. The short story is they start by taking out the non-football schools. Then place teams in their division on a 20%-30%-30%-20% formula. They then work the non-football teams back in. I assume based on a comment made that's when the BS starts happening with teams looking to go up and down.

FWIW: My thought on that D1 breakdown - choosing 1150 instead of 1100 saves Goffstown and well Portsmouth too... With West being the next at 949 - using a 1000 would have worked, but would put Portsmouth into D1... Can someone remind me where the current NHIAA head came from Suspect Surprised (Sorry Seacoast Dad, I just had to stir that pot). Of course even 949 at West doesn't mean much as they haven't been that competitive overall (for various reasons) in D2. I also recall the first year Exeter was placed into D1 football - how much howling went on because of how poorly they did. Anyone who had followed them for a bit knew that particular year was going to be down - in D2 they would have been middle of the road that year, in D1 they were over matched. Of course since then things have returned back to normal I'd say... Of course they are in a division with all former D2/D3 teams, which helps, but they still have to play the other teams and they still win. So it's more about the program than the size of the school. If size mattered that much, Pinkerton would win every year in every sport.

What's interesting about the current football argument where teams at the "lower end" of D1 claim they cannot compete with the big boys. Conversely when the same school is placed in a lower division (and pretty much dominates there) - that's not a problem; however, consider how the teams in the bottom third of D2 feel. Why should those teams close enough to D1 and twice our size not just be placed there so that we have a chance. That's where the concept of petitioning up in specific sports comes in, but it's a double edged sword due to all the scheduling conflicts and headaches for the AD. Not that any of those tweener teams are "guaranteed" to win at a lower level just because of their size, but they are deeper and can withstand the "injury problem".

Although just going by size has it's merits, I still think a bit of "thought" needs to be part of the process. And I think sport by sport AD's and coaches need to buck up in some cases. Just as much as I think programs that cannot compete at a certain level should be allowed to drop. Those that drop and roll over their competition should be punished by not being allowed to compete for a state championship. There has to be a penalty for the AD/coach that's trying to dog it. But what do I know, I'm just a parent!

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Re: Classification of all sports just hit the press

Post  Clancy on Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:28 pm

Glad to see West staying in 2, they can be a very good program in d2 year in and year out.

90 percent of games does not challenge Portsmouth in D2, they would be strong in D1. (Since JAF already went there) I am curious why the committee did not go with 1000

Winnicunnent in d2.... Look out


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Re: Classification of all sports just hit the press

Post  SeacoastDad on Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:56 pm

"What's interesting about the current football argument where teams at the "lower end" of D1 claim they cannot compete with the big boys. Conversely when the same school is placed in a lower division (and pretty much dominates there) - that's not a problem; however, consider how the teams in the bottom third of D2 feel. Why should those teams close enough to D1 and twice our size not just be placed there so that we have a chance. That's where the concept of petitioning up in specific sports comes in, but it's a double edged sword due to all the scheduling conflicts and headaches for the AD. Not that any of those tweener teams are "guaranteed" to win at a lower level just because of their size, but they are deeper and can withstand the "injury problem"."

JAF - This is exactly why I dislike the 3 division setup in football. Six divisions were probably too many, but three are too few.


For basketball, I like a 19 team setup in division 1, where every team should be required to play each other once (ignoring the Pembroke mess for now).

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Re: Classification of all sports just hit the press

Post  FormerFalcoln on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:17 pm

At Jaf - your assumptions of the classification sparing Portsmouth and Goffstown are not off base. Talked to two very good friends of mine from the DII AD ranks. Turns out classification DID vote to use 1000 as the cut off for the 2016/17 scheduling alignment for core sports like soccer, basketball and baseball. However, when the vote was then brought to executive council to finalize the new divisions, Collins spoke on behalf of Portsmouth and the council voted to keep the number at 1150. Keep in mind as well who is also on the council, Frank McBride the Principal of Goffstown too. DII ADs are not happy about it at all! Collins has a conflict of interest in this and should have never spoke on behalf of Protsmouth.

As for the divisional alignments, Winnicunnett might want to test the DII waters. Some good rivalries with Portsmouth, St. Thomas, and Oyster River right there in thier backyard. Who knows, they would be more competitive in all sports in DII like soccer and hoops in DII.

I did hear a rumor that Keene was looking to petition down in basketball (both girls and boys), and soccer (both) so if that does happen, then DI might be smaller than expected.

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Re: Classification of all sports just hit the press

Post  Hooper on Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:16 am

I have heard the same story regarding Collins protecting Portsmouth. Say one thing about Pat Corbin, he had no favorites (he hated everyone Very Happy )

It comes to a point where schools embarrass themselves by being in the wrong division, I am sure Pelham is glad they are back up.

I beleive Winni petitioned up to a D1, or I know they did, don't know if it was approved. there are other petitions pending too (Timberlane, Sanborn, etc)

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Reclassification

Post  tiger46 on Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:13 am

Has the dust settled on the reclassification? We have all heard the news that Portsmouth will be moving up to D1 next year and Pembroke will be coming down to D2. Pelham is returning to D2 and I heard Dave Haley say that St Thomas will be moving to D3. Does anyone know if the divisions have been locked down or are there still petitions under consideration to move up or down for the coming year?

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Re: Classification of all sports just hit the press

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