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NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

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NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:23 pm

NHSportsPage.com just broke the news that the Bell brothers will be headed to Lee Academy next year. We'll track all the kids heading to prep school in this thread.

Here's the story on Joe and Jourdain who will reclassify down a year to 2016 (Jourdain) and 2017 (Joe).

http://nhsportspage.com/news.php?news_id=931055

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:02 am

Campbell's Zach Bergeon is going to go play for Pete Hutchins at New Hampton.

Story: http://nhsportspage.com/news.php?news_id=931082

Also have heard Luke Rosinksi of Pinkerton will play at Proctor. Believe he's playing Hoops, will need to double check unless anybody's heard for sure.

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:38 am

Trinity's Wenyen Gabriel will play for the Titans at Wilbraham & Monson next season. NERR has the story: http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/article/3501/Prep-Bound.php

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  manchfan on Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:56 am

I heard from a good source that spoke directly with Luke Rosinski that he will be going to Kimball next season. Interesting turn of events though Geo Baker is returning to Pinkerton from his prep school.

I heard a rumor that Londonderry is losing talented Freshman Guard Kaleb Green to Proctor and possibly Senior Guard Cody Ball to Phillips Exeter.  Anyone heard anything about this?

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:03 am

Whoops yes Rosinki will be going to KUA. They need his size and length after losing Malik Abu this year to graduation. I'm sure Mike Olson will have him on the court quite a bit this upcoming year.

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  SeacoastDad on Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:08 pm

Bumping this topic back to the top.  Did Zach Bergeon decide not to go to prep school?  And the Bell brothers are back at Brady?  How about the others listed above?

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  justwondering on Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:55 am

I am wondering if someone could help me out on this maybe Mr.Falcon as it seemed that you understand rules and regulations of eligibility.

3 players 2 from the same school 1 from another school transfer out and play in scrimmages for a prep school. For whatever the reason is... said players transfer back to NHIAA school are they still eligible?

Question 2

Let's say players are eligible on above mentioned situation... remind me were NHIAA athletes permitted to participate in the game (show case) this past Aug? based on all I saw read heard etc... are these players eligible to play nhiaa basketball or did they forfeit the right to play?

There are many more knowledge people than I when it comes to this I am just wondering.

My assumption is these players are indeed eligible or we would have heard something....

which leads me to my final question

if they are permitted to play, why was the BEST NHIAA players not permitted to play in the same game?

Just Wondering




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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  Clancy on Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:32 am

Clearly some kids got screwed. There were two Memorial players who could not play as well because they did not want to lose there eligibility in that all star game.

I bet the NHIAA would not have even stepped in and done anything had not a Pembroke kid been involved. Clearly the NHIAA has two standards and it is beginning to become more evident.

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  Hooper on Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:22 am

It would be a shame if the three boys in question who played in that all star game and came back to the NHIAA were punished.

The real punishment should go on the people who give the advice that these kids should have gone to prep school in the first place. The promotion of some of these kids has spurred them onto to bad decisions regarding going to the NEPSAC.

AAU coaches who come in and tell kids they are better than they are and then try to convince others (Jeremy L for example) how good these kids are should take the hit here. None of the kids in question and others are "above" the high school experience

I for one hopes the NHIAA looks the other way on this, but who really knows what they will do.

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:14 am

Completely agree with you Hooper. The 2 most popular flavors of Kool Aid in NH basketball has been:

AAU Kool Aid & Prep Kool Aid

Let's remember both of these entities are money making entities and therefore the foundation is laid for verbal pedestal propping by individuals in power directed towards potential or present players. With the proper snake oil salesmanship these entities will sustain the $$ flow to keep themselves in business.

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  justwondering on Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:14 am

Like I stated in my 1st post.... many more knowledgeable people than I, shown by TF and Hooper

My hope is that parents/players will stop buying into the Prep/ AAU "Kool Aid" as TF put it so perfect.

As for the rankings put out by blog sites like..... (a person to be remain nameless) team rankings like Max Preps all it does is make very uneducated parents and players alike look foolish.

I know I have got off topic it was just a response to a comment previously made.... as for the individuals.... schools... nhiaa... I would not be surprised if their is a punishment.... if NOT could the case be made that a certain program/payers/coach were being targeted?

Mr. Falcon where are you? I am very curious what your thoughts are?

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  justwondering on Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:15 am

Like I stated in my 1st post.... many more knowledgeable people than I, shown by TF and Hooper

My hope is that parents/players will stop buying into the Prep/ AAU "Kool Aid" as TF put it so perfect.

As for the rankings put out by blog sites like..... (a person to be remain nameless) team rankings like Max Preps all it does is make very uneducated parents and players alike look foolish.

I know I have got off topic it was just a response to a comment previously made.... as for the individuals.... schools... nhiaa... I would not be surprised if their is a punishment.... if NOT could the case be made that a certain program/payers/coach were being targeted?

Mr. Falcon where are you? I am very curious what your thoughts are?

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  Hooper on Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:58 am

Well it would seem there would be a bit of a double standard, Pembroke may have a beef, but I would bet they would want no more attention outside of the painted lines

Really the focus should not be on those 3 kids coming back, it should be on the NHIAA and having kid friendly rules. It should also be on all the people who sell these kids crap on leaving. Jeremy's list may be an easy target but give him credit for trying to do a good thing for players in the state. But when he makes his list a good part of how he ranks the kids is based on the whispering of AAU coaches in his ears telling him how good people are, and AAU coaches have a vested interest in saying there players are better than others. The AAU coach then turns around and tells kids it's time to go....

Just my thoughts, can't wait for NH Sportspage Jamboree.

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  JAF on Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:57 am


The NHIAA should be more in the business of educating the players and their parents; however, in the long run the parents end up trusting someone they pay more than someone who's willing to give them free advice. Kind of an odd juxtaposition isn't it? One could argue a HS coach gets "paid", but let's face it he/she is not making a living coaching HS...

How many parents make their decision to go NEPSAC (or wherever) without ever having been to a game? Would you buy a car (or any other large purchase) without test driving it first? You may 'trust' someone to give you a recommendation, but it's still up to you to make the informed decision. If it's too good to be true...

Punishing the players for making an ultimately bad decision for them personally is not the answer. Just as much as punishing players who "legally transfer" between NHIAA member schools "for whatever reason" is not necessarily the right thing either. Nor is punishing players who made decisions 4 years prior to repeat 8th grade (or actually before that to enter school perhaps too early). Singling out players or having some opposing coach/AD 'complain' about eligibility makes one wonder what their ulterior motives are... What happened to Pembroke this year could happen in many other HS programs, but who's going to have the chutzpah to say some long time and perhaps well respected coach is doing the same thing? *None* of this should ever reach the level it did. Look forward not backward. Learn from the mistakes and move on.

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NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  tiger46 on Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:12 pm

Unfortunately the NHIAA potentially finds itself in another lose – lose situation, this time with the Sam Carey “All Star” game. As “just asking” points out there are several athletes that played in that game that will be playing for an NHIAA school this year. This coming after Jeff Collins warned any player who played in that game would lose their eligibility.
Now don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to see these kids lose their eligibility. I hope that Collins does the right thing and claims there are mitigating circumstance and let these players play. He also needs to say,” I’m sorry but sometimes life’s not fair” to the players who didn’t get to play in the Sam Carey game and move on. It sucks but, it is what it is. Actually, I hope that has already happened so those kids don’t have the specter of lost eligibility hanging over their heads as tryouts begin.
This latest incident got me thinking it’s time for the NHIAA to re-write the rule book. In the past nine months there has been one controversy after another concerning eligibility. I know they update the rules annually but, it’s time to start over, to start from a fresh perspective. Things have changed. Times have changed.
In the case of the Sam Carey All Star charity game, I believe that decision was made because the NHIAA Rule book clearly states the following.
CARDINAL ATHLETIC PRINCIPLES
To be of maximum effectiveness, the athletic program will:
1. Be a well-coordinated part of the secondary school curriculum.
2. Justify the use of the tax funds and school facilities because of the educational aims achieved.
3. Be based on the spirit of amateurism.
4. Be conducted by secondary school authorities.
5. Provide opportunities for many students to participate in a wide variety of sports.
6. Eliminate professionalism and commercialism.
7. Prevent "all-star" contests or other promotional events.
8. Foster training in conduct, game ethics, and sportsmanship for participants and spectators.
9. Include a well-balanced program of intramural sports.
10. Engender a respect for local, state, and national rules and policies under which the school program is conducted.
-Adopted from the National Federation
Line 7 refers to the prevention of “all star” games. Pretty straight forward. The rules also state that their ten principles were adopted from the NFHS. I went to the NFHS website to see why an all star game is against their principles. In searching the NFHS website I could find no opinion on all star games one way or the other. BTW, I couldn’t find any reference to “CARDINAL ATHLETIC PRINCIPLES” either.
However, there are other states who are members of the NFHS that do sanction All Star games. For instance, last year, the MIAA sanctioned the MA Baseball Coaches Junior Select All-Star Game Hosted by Saugus High School.
Disallowing players from the Sam Carey game is one more example of the NHIAA rules getting in the way of what is in the best interest of the kids.
Drinking the Prep School “Kool Aid” and AAU “Kool Aid” are the new drinks of choice for most of the best players in the state. Unfortunately, I don’t see an end to it. Being told by adults, that you are the next Chris Paul, or Kevin Durant is intoxicating and it is addictive.
The number of kids transferring to prep school has exploded in the past few years and the trend will likely continue. Many of the top girls are now getting a heavy dose of that Kool Aid as well. As more kids explore this option many will return to their high schools. This year several kids transferred back from prep schools to their original High Schools. I know that with many of these transfers, the players reentered at their appropriate grade level but, what if there was one who reclassified. Should they be eligible to play as a senior? There needs to be clear rules to accommodate those kids.
Also, governing bodies like the NHIAA have helped to create the AAU monster. By limiting the contact a high school coach can have with his players in the off season. Kids have rushed to AAU programs to fill the void. Most of the best players in the country spend 9 months with their AAU coach and 3 months with the high school coach. Most AAU programs will have weekend workouts during the High School season that maintain that contact year round. Any wonder why the AAU coach has so much influence. Some of the out of season contact rules have been relaxed in recent years. Maybe it’s time for the High School coach to continue into the AAU season. In any event, a full blown re-examination of the rule is really called for.
Many NHIAA rules are vague and open to interpretation – like the rule where a player can repeat 6th or 7th grade and keep his eligibility but not 8th. Parents will do what they think is in the best interest of their child regardless of what any of us think. Why not a rule, like 4 consecutive years of high school eligibility with a maximum age limit? Seems straight forward to me.
The NHIAA needs to look ahead to possible issues it could face in the coming years and get ahead of them. For instance, transfer from member institution to member institution. The Catholic Schools have taken the brunt of this criticism along with the Manchester schools in the past. The parochial and city schools have worked out a kind of “gentleman’s agreement” with the NHIAA to keep things from getting out of hand and for the most part everyone goes along because they don’t want to screw over the kid. With the current economy and declining enrolments many suburban schools are now accepting tuition students. Bedford High School was just named one of the top five high schools in the state in academics.
Bedford accepts tuition students (the non-resident application is right on their home-page). Bedford has great facilities and their teams are great across the board. What if athletes start transferring to schools like Bedford. I’m not suggesting that Bedford has done anything wrong or is planning to. I’m simply suggesting they are in a position to have athletes transfer in for better academics and good sports programs. The NHIAA will need clear guidelines for these types of transfers in the next few years. The rule “not for sports reasons” is too vague. What if a student transfers for a better educational opportunity but, still wants to play sports? Would sports be considered a part of that decision? What percentage of the decision is acceptable? 0%? 10%? 20%? Should transferring automatically mandate a year’s loss of eligibility?
On this board I see us talking more about the rules and less about the games and that is a shame. With the appointment of a new director, this would be the perfect time for the NHIAA to join the 21st century and take a fresh look at their rules.

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  newtothismom on Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:04 pm

"Really the focus should not be on those 3 kids coming back, it should be on the NHIAA and having kid friendly rules. It should also be on all the people who sell these kids crap on leaving. Jeremy's list may be an easy target but give him credit for trying to do a good thing for players in the state. But when he makes his list a good part of how he ranks the kids is based on the whispering of AAU coaches in his ears telling him how good people are, and AAU coaches have a vested interest in saying there players are better than others. The AAU coach then turns around and tells kids it's time to go...."

Hooper I've heard it's not just AAU coaches whispering in his ear, they are actually writing the articles for posting. It needs to be out there so parent's understand the symbiotic relationship going between AAU, certain blogs and even high school programs. Follow the money. Don't get caught in the hype or allow your children to make educational mistakes based on some fantasy.

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  JAF on Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:27 pm

A couple sayings coming to mind...

"Don't believe everything you read..."

"If it's too good to be true..."

"Do the math..."

A basketball team has *5* players in the game at a time (the fewest of major team sports). Furthermore what does each coach "carry" at any one position? What type of offense? Roster size is still 15(ish).

The *best* NH player is still 1 out of 1.3 million in *THIS* state. You have to have something *very special* (like
Kaleb Tarczewski) to be noticed elsewhere. Not saying it cannot be done, but be realistic and know what you're being compared to.

On average there are *2.6* schollys for D1 and *2* schollys for D2 available for *each year* for men's basketball (men are allowed I think 13 overall spread out over 5 years for D1 and 10 for D2 spread out over 5 years). Why 5 years - it's a number I got from a seminar I attended quite a few years ago about recruiting - think red shirt. I bought a book at the seminar - for men's basketball the following basic elements are looked at:

Center 6'9"+: Sound post skills, rebound skills
Power Forward 6'7"+: Rebounding skills, inside/outside shot range
Small Forward 6'5"+: Ability to play inside or outside, scoring ability
Shooting Guard 6'2"+: Excellent outside shot, ball handling skills
Point Guard 6'0"+: Greak ball handling, passing, court penetration awareness

Grades, Grades, Grades - beyond the ability to get *academic* money - coaches like good students because they know they'll stay eligible.

Just because you're on Jeremy's list doesn't mean you should be getting a D1 scholly to Duke. It doesn't mean you cannot play college hoops *if* that's what you want. Who cares if Jeremy writes it or is given the text, it still doesn't mean that just because you're tops on the list that you can compete anywhere. Jeremy's list perhaps gives some D3 coach a few players to look at, it may give some D2 coaches players to look at. For the D1 coach, they will *know* about you before you hit those lists. That's no different in any college sport.

To be fair/honest - I haven't looked at Jeremy's list recently. As part of having 3 boys be recruited and played collegiate sports, I can tell you the coaches we saw (D3/D2) knew us only because we did the leg work to create tapes, send them in, follow up. This is "market yourself" (which BTW is the #1 principle in the seminar I took). Don't be the "flavor of the week/month" on some list - do the hard work yourself and a college coach will appreciate it more.... Oh and not, mommy or daddy - the *player* has to make the contacts. Coaches don't want to talk with mom/dad - you think you have problems getting information from your high school coach - just wait!!!

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  SoccerfanNH on Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:43 pm

I have been reading these threads for a while now and thought I can lend some thought to the discussion. I played NH high school basketball, all state, played DII and then transferred to DII here in NH. I had an ok college career averaging 8 points, 6 boards, 5 assists and two 3fg per game. I was a solid DII bench player, socred 20 once vs. New Hampshire College. After that i think my next best ever was 13 vs. Bryant. So I consider myself qualified to speak on this issue.

When I was in high school, the era of recruiting tapes had just started. The AAU structure was much different too. There were a handful of AAU programs mostly run by high school coaches. There were a couple of tournaments here and there in the state and you were invited to tryout for the state teams which would compete at the National Tournament. About 35 or 40 of us were invited to St. Anselm to tryout and then 24 were taken for two teams. Summer of my junior year we went to San Antonio and summer before my senior year we went to Arkansas. The 24 kids were divided into two teams, the top 12 were NH Gold, the second 12 were NH Silver. The teams really were the collection of the best talent in the state from all over. Our exposure was in the New England tournament, the Canada tournament, and the Nationals.

The development of these lists from Jeremy and others are both a blessing and a curse. A blessing in the sense that the names do get out there and schools get a buzz in thier ear. However, the drawback is kids and parents use these lists for more that what they are intended. My sense is that Jeremy and others like him are trying to create Interest, build name recognition for these kids, and promote NH basketball. Parents and kids are using the lists, forgetting that the best player in NH right now, would be a bench  / role player  on just about any team from NYC, Philly, or DC. In fact, guys I played with in college were the 6th or 7th man on teams from Chicago and Baltimore. The starting five at thier high schools were all DI scholarship kids.

I am not bashing kids from NH, just being realistic. I watched a game last year here in NH with two of the top teams in NHIAA DI boys hoop. I saw one DII kid at best and about 3 other DIII caliber players. Look at the DIII college teams in NH right now. Almost all have NH kids who went to prep for what? To still be a DIII player? Ad I saw that Rene is not even on the CSC roster this year. Arsenault is at Plymouth doing well, and he was a DIII player when he was a senior at Berlin. NH is great for developing DIII talent, a few DII players each year, and the occasional LEGITIMATE DI players. That's the reality. I am happy for any kid who plays college hoops at any level. I loved my college experience and wish every kid could have the chance to play at the college level.


Last edited by SoccerfanNH on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typos via autocorect on an iPad. Edited by the author.)

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Great Insight

Post  anotherhoopfan on Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:38 am

Thanks for sharing SoccerfanNH - that is great perspective for all involved!

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Re: NHIAA Talent Heading to Prep in 2014/2015

Post  Clancy on Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:47 am

Great posts from JAF and soccerfan.

Kids really need to be about the best experience they can have. I think Memorial could win a state title this year (some say, should win a state title this year) that will really bond those kids for life, would be great for the school and community. An experience they will not forget.
Travon and Kabongo may be the best two players in the state


I'm not sure I believe much coming out of the AAU hype world,

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Autocorrect

Post  SoccerfanNH on Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:58 am

Sorry to all who read these about the typos in my post. Autocorrect on an IPad. Enough said.

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