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Post  E.I.R. on Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:51 pm

I did not realize they had that rule, so now holding the ball makes more sense. It seems CM watched the BG film and realized to key in on Chartrand on passing plays, I didn't see him even close to being open. The other receivers for BG did a horrible job holding onto the ball though, which doesn't help anyone.

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Post  bb603 on Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:01 am

Sofa King said:

"Let's do our best to try and not turn this into a tired, stale discussion about Tony Johnson and Mark Phillips leaving BG. Schools make decisions and coaches come and go. Let's not take responsibility and credit away from THE KIDS. To make the discussions about BG all about the coaching is selling the kids short."

It's natural to lament the loss of the previous coaches in this situation.

A good coach can do so much to improve a team. The skills of the players only go so far if the coaching isn't good.

A good coach old or young will use any resources available to improve himself and the team. I had the awful experience of watching a baseball coach have his team underachieve because he let a highly experienced pitching coach leave.

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Post  SofaKing on Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:19 pm

bb603 wrote:Sofa King said:

"Let's do our best to try and not turn this into a tired, stale discussion about Tony Johnson and Mark Phillips leaving BG. Schools make decisions and coaches come and go. Let's not take responsibility and credit away from THE KIDS. To make the discussions about BG all about the coaching is selling the kids short."

It's natural to lament the loss of the previous coaches in this situation.

A good coach can do so much to improve a team. The skills of the players only go so far if the coaching isn't good.

A good coach old or young will use any resources available to improve himself and the team. I had the awful experience of watching a baseball coach have his team underachieve because he let a highly experienced pitching coach leave.

I would never downplay the role of a coach. I myself coached for many years. I'm simply trying to avoid the very thing which has happened: turning the message board's most active discussion into a "what if" back-and-forth about the BG football coaching situation. This topic was dead months ago. There's really nothing left to be said. The players, administration, and coaches have all moved on and accepted reality, because they know that change is a part of real life. I simply think it would be wise for everyone else to do the same. There's much more interesting and constructive topics to cover in NH football, in my humble opinion.

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:24 pm

SofaKing, I do hear what you are saying about moving on etc.

As far as the issue being dead......uhhh, no. Put yourself in the shoes of a parent of a junior or senior player that thought they were going to have Coach A for their son's whole football career and oh by the way Coach A was one of the reasons, among others, they decided to enroll their son at BG. There is a murky and convoluted situation which arose that lead to Coach A's departure. "What ifs" is all fair territory when a respected coach doesn't leave on his own accord. Parents and alumni are fully within their right to compare and discuss issues with the football team comparing this year to last etc. The parents have 11,750 reasons to discuss "what ifs" back and forth.


The 11,750 reasons are the tuition the parents pay to BG.


I am not a BG parent or alumni, but some one who thinks the BG parents are within their right to discuss things openly about the 2009, 2010 or 2011 season as they see fit, because they have 11,750 good reasons to do so. Is it fair or wise for them to discuss the comparisons? Sometimes yes and sometimes no, but it is their right to be discussing this on the Forum.

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Post  SofaKing on Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:23 pm

I guess I'll say it one more time just for clarity:

People can certainly discuss whatever they'd like. I'd hope that fact is obvioius. I'm simply suggesting for the sake of not having this good, diverse forum fall into an endless repetitive cycle...the BG coaching topic should either take a rest or, maybe better yet, gets it's own topic so that every thread on the board doesn't turn into "TOJO should come back and they should call Mark Phillips so BG can move the ball better! ARGHGHGHGHG!!!!"

I guess I was just hoping that there would be other areas of interest to the NH football fans (Souhegan's seeming demise, Pinkerton's dominance, Keene's recent collapse, West's and Spaulding's improvements, etc. etc. etc.). Maybe I'm just trying not to be disappointed becuase I was excited to find this forum, but it seems that most of the talk always comes back to BG and there's little exploration of other topics.

BUT, I'm the new guy here...so maybe I should just shut my mouth and quit crying!! Sad


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Post  JAF on Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:42 pm

Talk about Keene or West or Spaulding would be great!!! Unfortunately I can only go by what's read in the online newspapers. Perhaps there's a parent or athletic supporter of one of those teams that would jump into the fray. Keene's losses are shocking, but as I read in the UL article - it seems turnovers have been very costly to them. Lots and lots vs West and Spaulding accounting for 2 losses, while none vs. Alvirne and a big win. Keene's woes are mirrored in Souhegan with respect to taking care of the ball. Spaulding breaking a 5 year D2 losing streak - last team they beat - Alvirne. I think if you furrow through the history - we discussed West at some point earlier this year at least with respect to moving down to D3 and being allowed to rebuild their program like Trinity was allowed to do in D5 before they jumped to D4.

A forum such as this can only be as good and deep as the contributors. I think there are at least 3 active BG supporters, 1 Memorial, 1 Milford, 1 Souhegan, what else? Who's lurking that wants to put some words about their team?

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Post  E.I.R. on Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:51 pm

Stead is a Pinkerton fan. And may God have mercy on his soul Wink
I'm kidding of course. But I'm primarily BG but I like to get to Souhegan, Merrimack, Alvirne, etc when I can. Other teams are too far away, sorry Keene. Exeter-PA may be worth the trip this week though.

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Post  SofaKing on Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:17 am

JAF wrote:Talk about Keene or West or Spaulding would be great!!! Unfortunately I can only go by what's read in the online newspapers. Perhaps there's a parent or athletic supporter of one of those teams that would jump into the fray. Keene's losses are shocking, but as I read in the UL article - it seems turnovers have been very costly to them. Lots and lots vs West and Spaulding accounting for 2 losses, while none vs. Alvirne and a big win. Keene's woes are mirrored in Souhegan with respect to taking care of the ball. Spaulding breaking a 5 year D2 losing streak - last team they beat - Alvirne. I think if you furrow through the history - we discussed West at some point earlier this year at least with respect to moving down to D3 and being allowed to rebuild their program like Trinity was allowed to do in D5 before they jumped to D4.

A forum such as this can only be as good and deep as the contributors. I think there are at least 3 active BG supporters, 1 Memorial, 1 Milford, 1 Souhegan, what else? Who's lurking that wants to put some words about their team?

It's a little different for Trinity to be in D5 to rebuild though, because that's where Trinity's enrollment naturally put them. For West to move down to D3 would put them 2 divisions below where their enrollment says they should be.

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Post  JAF on Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:20 am


SofaKing - are you sure about West? Remember, they lost half their school when Bedford HS opened and the City of Manchester has "refused"? to redistrict to even out all 3 public high schools.

Take a look at the following (page 5):

http://www.nhiaa.org/PDFs/3732/2011FootballPolicyandProceduresManual.pdf

I think you'll note West's numbers certainly make a case. If you consider other sports they play where getting athletes to participate (eligible or otherwise), you might come to the conclusion that until they "right the ship" - it may suit them to play down. And yes, I know about Trinity - I think what they did was perfect for them. Getting regularly blown out in D1 games did no good. No one would come out for a team that had zero shot at winning. They actually got a few of their other sport athletes to play football and now are competitive again.

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Post  SofaKing on Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:22 pm

JAF wrote:
SofaKing - are you sure about West? Remember, they lost half their school when Bedford HS opened and the City of Manchester has "refused"? to redistrict to even out all 3 public high schools.

Take a look at the following (page 5):


I think you'll note West's numbers certainly make a case. If you consider other sports they play where getting athletes to participate (eligible or otherwise), you might come to the conclusion that until they "right the ship" - it may suit them to play down. And yes, I know about Trinity - I think what they did was perfect for them. Getting regularly blown out in D1 games did no good. No one would come out for a team that had zero shot at winning. They actually got a few of their other sport athletes to play football and now are competitive again.

At 1389, they're still bigger than 3 other schools (Winnacunnet D2, Goffstown D3 and Bedford D3). But, you're correct that they should NOT be a D1 school.

To be fair to West, I believe they have performed above expectations this season, so going down to D3 is probably not necessary...and good for them for building themselves up to be competitive again!

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Post  GNG on Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:45 pm

SK, West has given up 35 points per game in 3 division 2 contests. They are averaging 12 points per game thru 3 division 2 contests.

The SAD part is I agree with you, they are performing above expectations. It just shows how low we are setting the bar when it comes to them.

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Post  SofaKing on Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:04 pm

GNG wrote:SK, West has given up 35 points per game in 3 division 2 contests. They are averaging 12 points per game thru 3 division 2 contests.

The SAD part is I agree with you, they are performing above expectations. It just shows how low we are setting the bar when it comes to them.

True dat!

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Post  boxout on Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:42 pm

This entire forum revolves around BG, be careful of what you say, BG supporters get very upset on this forum. If someone from out of state came to this forum, they would think that BG is the only HS in NH.This board has become boring with all the TOJO stuff, he is gone, he didn't want to follow his contract so the school dismissed him from coaching, he is to blame no one else. People don't want to admit that BG has been playing a Division below what they should for about 30 years. This is the problem when you let private schools into a public school league. See BG actually has players from MA. A team like Merrimack can't go into MA, and grab football players. You can say BG doesn't recruit, but it is interesting that they all seem to be athletes. So I would say a question for enrollment is, do you play sports? BG can take athletes from any town in this state as well. Imagine if all the other schools could do the same. The BG supporters will comeback with, it happens that an athlete will move from Nashua to Merrimack to play sports, but it is rare, and yet it happens every year for every season for BG.


Last edited by Tuesday and Friday on Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : One should check out their information 100% before making accusatory statements on the Forum.)

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Post  GNG on Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:43 pm

Just to clarify boxout. No moderators work at BG, or have graduated from BG. ZERO.


Talk about boring. Your tired public vs private debate. Sleep

Tojo took over a terrible program 17 years ago, not 30.

Where do you get Tojo didn't want to follow his contract? Make that up on your own.


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Post  JAF on Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:01 pm


I think Boxout is looking to change the argument or he's being extremely facetious... If not then he's uninformed. I did say I was surprised the R word hadn't come up in quite a while, but Boxout you like many before don't understand that while I don't doubt there are players that come just because of a sport (be it football, lacrosse, hockey, track, etc.) and a particular coach, there are for more examples of athletes that come to escape their towns public school system or for some athletes the coaches that are in the "stay" in a position they shouldn't be in... Don't hate on BG for that. I just hope we don't fall into that trap here because it's a no win argument for either side.

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:37 pm

OK, Boxout and GNG. Recess is over and it's time to go back into the Forum classroom.

Boxout, there is only one moderator who is involved in some sort with BG. That is JAF. Except for Jtnhhsfan, which I can't vouch for, all the rest of the moderators are NOT INVOLVED OR HAVE CHILDREN that go to BG. Please don't misrepresent facts about the moderators. You are doing a disservice to the Forum and the people who help run it.

GNG, I know it's tough to not answer back to each other, but try to cool your keyboard too.

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Post  boxout on Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:48 pm

Ok here is my understanding on TOJO, he wanted to become AD at BG in order to become that he had to give up coaching, it was in his contract. They let him do both for a little while, but then decided to put their foot down. So TOJO chose to be the AD, giving up his job as coach. So yes he left, he had a choice. Plain and simple all wrapped up in a nice little bow for you. I know when TOJO became HC at BG, that is not my point about 30 years, BG was not awful 30 years ago. Interesting that it took TOJO 7 years to produce a championship, but you want Cote to do it in year one. They may have been bad 17 years ago, but not 30. I wonder how TOJO would do at a public high school where he can't go into MA or other NH towns and get athletes. I bet he is not the dynasty maker any more.
Page two of this thread is filled with TOJO references, just look it up on this thread, so no I am not changing the argument. Someone else brought up all the overblown BG posts on this site.
I do know for a fact that you/GNG have kids that went or are going to BG. Did you go to BG too? There are moderators who went to BG.
You completely exaggerate the rate of students who move from town to town to play sports, it is a fact that every other school in the state of NH doesn't add up to what BG gets for athletes every year and in every sport. Don't feel left out, Trinity is in the same boat and so is Derryfield, Concord Christian, etc...The rate that BG gets new students every year from out of town is in the hundreds. Out of state is in the 50's. So no is the answer to your question about towns recruiting at that rate, most public schools are lucky if ONE kid moves to their town, not hundreds.
I know coaches who swear and actually say it publicly that BG does recruit.
Did The Assistant not go to BG?









Last edited by boxout on Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:12 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : T@F my point was that this forurm is loaded with BG parents, BG moderators, and BG grads, that is hardly misrepresenting this forum site.)

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Post  GNG on Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:27 pm

Boxout, I am a proud graduate of the Manchester Memorial Crusaders class of 1978. My YOUNGEST son graduated from BG last year.

No the asst didn't graduate from BG.


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Post  boxout on Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:37 pm

apologies about the assistant going to BG. But there is at least one moderator who is a BG grad, potentially two. GNG, all I am asking is that you respect Coach Cote, I have known him for about 35 years and he is a good guy, you would like him if you had a beer with him. You would actually like me to if we had a beer together. I will be the first to admit, I do get tired of the BG and Milford posts on here, many that are so biased it is unreal. It seems that it is OK for BG and Milford to put down other schools but if other schools come in here for support they are edited or shouted at constantly. I went to Milford and sometimes the Milford posts are so full of half the game it is unreal. Try to cushion the blow for Milford and sock it to the other team. I guess now that I think about it, I have no one to blame but myself, I really don't need to read them.

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:44 pm

"T@F my point was that this forurm is loaded with BG parents, BG moderators, and BG grads, that is hardly misrepresenting this forum site."
boxout


Boxout: My point will be and always will be to leave personal attacks out of the Forum. Please remember this with future posting on the Forum.
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Post  GNG on Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:00 pm

I have no doubt I would like you boxout if we met, and Coach Cote.

I remember when he first got hired you got on here and said you knew him, and that he was a good guy.

I must admit at first I was cool to his hiring. BG could have hired Belichek and I wouldn't have liked it.

He is growing on me. I feel for the guy. He is in arguably the most high profile hs football job in NH.

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Post  JAF on Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:33 pm

I'm a 1983 Nashua High graduate, live in bucolic Litchfield and we decided many years ago that our children wouldn't graduate from Litchfield public schools. I've had 2 graduate BG (one at Tufts now and the other at Muhlenberg) and I have a sophomore who isn't playing football this year (many reasons).

I'll make one slight adjustment to T&F's assertion, I agreed to help moderate the baseball forum since it's also another interest of mine and the Assistant asked for help since he was busy with other things and knew I was on day to day. I do not have moderator privs for football or basketball (the primary posting topics).

Converse to your assertion about how Tojo would do in public HS program... How many existing high school coaches would roster 80-100 players of which more than half never played football before and those that did played for different town pop warner programs, but yet still be successful? Programs are not built overnight - Cote has fallen into a great situation and this team should be near the top of D2 based purely on how they've done in JV's and how much game time they got last year filling in for the injured players (lots of time). The question is - will BG be as consistent 10 years from now? Most public HS coaches get a core group of kids who have played together in all sports since they were in the 3rd/4th grade, right? When does pop warner start? Do the pop warner programs attempt to emulate the HS program schemes? GNG says Merrimack doesn't - check out their results. In any case, if you have 20+ kids that have played together year after year, I'll contend it's a bit easier to know how to fit them together. They know each other and they've already got some football IQ. BG has 4 years to build varying groups of talent into a powerhouse. The 2009 team as Freshman didn't win a single game. As Seniors with the integration of the 2010 class they lost to Billerica in a brutally hard game and Keene as a result of a strange blocked FG play. Beating Keene in the semis (lest we forget) a few weeks later - those seniors led the team to 3 of the most unconventional scores - an end zone fumble recovery by an offensive lineman, a blocked punt by a receiver, and an interception off of a read screen pass. They learned the game in 4 all too quick years. Some played 1 year in college, but didn't find the passion that kept them together at BG. It's not "simple" as one would think to pull it together even with great athletes. Does BG get more than it's fair share of great athletes - I don't disagree. Whether you consider them recruited is all a matter of interpretation. We didn't go there because of football, but there are those that have. Whether they were "asked" by coaches is all a matter of hearsay and accusation. Usually the "recruiting" is done by parents talking with their friends in their town.

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Post  E.I.R. on Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:04 pm

My kid played for Johnson long before the winning started. No one accused him or any of his teammates of being recruited. We sent him there because I felt the public school system in our town was deplorable. He never played football before going to BG.
My question is, if BG can recruit, why don't ALL BG sports dominate? Recently (meaning this year and the last few years) I've read a lot about football, boys track, boys swimming girls track, boys lacrosse, baseball (a 12-4 team last year after 3 years under .500), and girls lacrosse. They have something like 30 varsity sports teams, this falls well short of that number. For that reason alone, I question whether BG has changed that drastically.
Side note-I am not entirely sure why the hype about MA players. Yes, some are very good, but the player's talent has little to do with whether they live in Nashua or Pepperell, cue Jerickson Fedrick (Salem), Mike Kelly (Merrimack), Max Jacques (Salem), DJ Petropolous (Amherst), Mike Luks (Souhegan), Jackson King (Merrimack), the Jellison brothers (Souhegan).

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:31 pm

"But there is at least one moderator who is a BG grad, potentially two"
Boxout


I graduated from Trinity High School. The Assistant graduated from Mt Abraham High School in Vermont. Tulliver graduated from Nashua High School when it was Nashua High School and not North/South. JAF is also a Nashua High School graduate. JT_nh_hs_fan, I do not know about, but given JT has not visited the Forum since Aug. 4th then I would say it's a pretty good probability that JT isn't a graduate of BG either. Do you really think JT wouldn't visit the Forum since August 4th if he was a BG graduate? That's your Forum moderator's high school graduations.

I reiterate to you Boxout. Please know your information before making accusatory postings on the Forum. Be careful when you slide down this slope. This will compromise any information you post about in the future if you aren't careful and fly off the posting handle with misinformation.

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:42 am

There is a heavy BG influence on the Forum. Winning breeds excitement which in turn motivates people to talk about it. No doubt the forum is topic of conversation on the Diamond sidelines, in the Football stands and in the Bleachers at BG Basketball and other sporting events. That is why there is a heavy influence. I expect you will see the bias/excitement/contributer forum base shift as teams become successful.

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