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DII Re-Alignment

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DII Re-Alignment Empty DII Re-Alignment

Post  boxout on Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:32 am

Sorry to start a semi-new topic, but other thread had too much DI/DII going back and forth. Bigman, if you do North-South, I will work East-West. Then we can compare, and potentially submit to NHIAA, lol. We may have to mix and match.
ChiKid if you want to work on Conference/Divisions i'd be curious to see. I will read your post again, but if I can see you break it down with teams it might be easier to understand. I get what you are saying. The only thing I worry about is schools/towns raising banners for winning division, winning Conference. It might start to seem like football, where we have six state champions every year.
I will work on my third today/tomorrow, just a little busy right now.

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Re: DII Re-Alignment

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:35 am

Good idea on the new thread...you guys are ambitious but I'm intrigued to see what you come up with!

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Just like last year

Post  chicagokid43 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:48 am

I actually did this project last year and you quickly realize that Kennet is the issue with the realignment. If you try to align them with Hanover and Lebanon they travel way to far for those two games. If you have them play with the Laconia/Kingswoods they are ok but then you have to short the seacoast teams.. lol

Can we trade Kennet for Stevens and a team to be named late? Or cash options like the Knicks?

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DII Re-Alignment Empty same issue with DIII as well

Post  carp24 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:10 pm

Re-alignment is also the NHIAA needs to look at for D3 as well...way to much travel and many teams don't play enough of the others...example...White Mountains finished 15-2...played 6 games vs D4 teams because they are so far up north...when a team like Campbell played Pelham, Bow twice, Raymond twice, Somersworth, Conant...and finished 8-9...they will potentially meet in the 2nd round and that would be a very interesting score to see...it would be pretty easy to seperate into north and south divisions...North: White Mtns, Berlin, Newfound, Inter-Lakes, Belmont, Winnisquam, Franklin, Mascoma, Gilford, Prospect Mtn, Farmington and Somersworth (12 teams)...South: Conant, Campbell, Monadnock, Stevens, Fall Mtn, Hillsboro-Deering, Mascenic, Raymond, Bow, Newport and Hopkinton (11 teams)...you can play everyone in your Conference once and fill in the remaining games with others in your division or out of (and not be penalized or benefit if you play a smaller school)...just a thought...

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Conferences

Post  chicagokid43 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:22 pm

That is why conferences are so important for seeding for the playoffs. The state is just not populated evenly to make travel fair as well as a balanced schedule for every team. However if you force teams into a conference where they play 12 games against the same as the others in their conference those games mean more and the seeding would be fair. Here is a example of my thoughts for D2

Four conferences, Call them what you like.
#1
Starke
Goffstown
MV
Pembroke
Brady
Conval

#2
HB
Souhegan
Milford
Pelham
Bedford
Windham

#3
Coe Brown
St Thomas
Oyster River
Portsmouth
Sanborn
Laconia

#4
Plymouth
Lebanon
Hanover
Kennet
KIngswood
Kearsarge

You play a home and away with your conference teams and you can play 8 games outside your division.

Top 4 in each division make the playoffs, seedings based on total wins outside of the division getting #1 seed and rest in order by finish order and conference rankings.

If all four conference winners win their home games to get to the final four you would then possibly have teams that have not faced each other all year. I personally think that is more interesting come playoff time. May not happen every year but could.

Well start the debate. Please do not call me on travel time for Kennet and local rivals not being in your division. Keep in mind you will have 8 games outside of your division to schedule rivals from both inside and outside your division.

Thoughts...

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DII Re-Alignment Empty North/South

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:47 pm

There are teams that are going to be very close to each other and one may go to the North and one may go to the south etc. I looked at google maps while putting these together lol, so I tried to make it as accurate as possible. I drew the line at Concord, if the team is in line with or above it's a Northern team, below that line it's a Southern team.


North
Bishop Brady
Coe-brown
Hanover
Kearsarge
Kennett
Kingswood
Laconia
Lebanon
Merrimack Valley
Pembroke
Plymouth
St. Thomas

South
Bedford
ConVal
Goffstown
Hollis/Brookline
John Stark
Milford
Oyster River
Pelham
Portsmouth
Sanborn
Souhegan
Windham

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Re: DII Re-Alignment

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:52 pm

Chi-kid I like your divisions but why not just switch Kennett and Laconia? The teams in Kennett's division are closer to Laconia and the teams in Laconia's division is about as close as you can get to Kennett, Not to mention year in and year out they both are at the bottom of the standings so they cancel each other out from that stand point so you might as well make the travel easier. Other than that I agree with it.

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Post  carp24 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:54 pm

that's where the conferences would work...every team would play the same in-conference teams, but still be able to schedule out-side of their confernce to play rivals, or teams close in travel that were put into another conference...

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Kennet and Laconia

Post  chicagokid43 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:04 pm

Bigman I was just trying to avoid having Portsmouth go all the way to Kennet which is a hike but with Kennet there is always going to be complaints. I would actually rather have Kennet in D3 and add Stevens back to D2 which would make the entire project easier. Stevens is so close to Kearsarge<Leb,Hanover that would be a good division with that addition. But you could do that switch but to me, sending Kennet to D3 would even make more sense.

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Kennett

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:07 pm

Definately agree Kennett to D3 and Stevens back would be perfect, even if there weren't divisions that'd be easier.

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Post  carp24 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:09 pm

that would make sense, Chikid...put Kennet in the North in D3...slide somersworth into the South...Stevens makes more sense in that alignment...and Kennent can still schedule games with a rival like Kingswood

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Overall Combined Records of North and South

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:58 pm

Feel Free to check the math/statistics on your own but i'm 95% positive everything posted is correct.\

North

Bishop Brady (4-13) Overall Combined Record- 83-103 Winning % .446
Coe-brown (11-5)
Hanover (12-3) Record Vs. South- 23-37
Kearsarge (7-10)
Kennett (1-15)
Kingswood (7-8 )
Laconia (5-12)
Lebanon (12-4)
M. Valley (10-7)
Pembroke (13-2)
Plymouth (1-15)
St. Thomas (6-9)


South

Bedford (9-6) Overall Combined Record- 98-89 Winning % .524
ConVal (3-12)
Goffstown (11-3) Record vs North- 37-23
H/B (1-14)
John Stark (9-7)
Milford (17-0)
Oyster River (10-6)
Pelham (14-3)
Portsmouth (12-3)
Sanborn (0-17)
Souhegan (10-4)
Windham (2-14)

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Very Interesting..

Post  chicagokid43 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:06 pm

Very Interesting but my septic is backed up... I hate living in the country.. I miss ghetto living!

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DII Re-Alignment Empty ChiKid

Post  boxout on Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:50 pm

Your Conferences look good, you need to make some adjustments though. Remember that you would only play 11 games in your Conference because you don't play yourself. Not sure if that changes anything, but keep that in mind. Also what happens if you play a tougher schedule outside of your Conference? With 7 games left to play, you would play more than half the other conference. We may have the same problems we have now.
Bigman I looked at your, it looks pretty good, I will study it more though. I also respect your N/S breakdown of winning percentages. So far you are right. However the Northern schools have had so many cancellations, we will have to see if that evens out in the end. ChiKid mentioned it, it is all up to what Goffstown, Souhegan, John Stark, and Bedford do the rest of the year. As much as I like the way Goffstown plays, they have had some easy match ups. They are, I think 1-2 against teams better than them, and 10-1 against teams behind them. Should be fun.
Let me work on East West now.

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Boxout

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:01 pm

North, South was tough as you'll have teams that might be like a 15-20 minute ride away and I had to consider them Northern teams to balance the divisions out, but according to google maps that was about as accurate as I could get it, but i'm interested in your east, west conferences as I think that'd be a better way to look at it rather than north south.

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Boxout?

Post  chicagokid43 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:53 pm

Not sure I understand what you mean about the 11 games unless you are talking about the North south Version. My version has 6 teams in each conference and you would play the other 5 in your conference at home and away. Giving you ten conference games and 8 to schedule outside of the conference/division.

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Post  carp24 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:58 pm

boxout...the schedule outside of the conferences wouldn't matter...as you would base the conference standings on in-conference games...the games scheduled outside would be for travel convience, or rivalries, or just a school's want to play a tougher schedule to prepare for the post-season...

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Post  goldenbear on Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:07 pm

Kennett needs to be with laconia, Kingswood and Plymouth those school are only all no more than 1 hour to 45 minutes apart. They are rivals and Kingswood and Kennnett are in the same county.

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DII Re-Alignment Empty East-West

Post  boxout on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:08 am

Guys here is my list, feel free please to pick it apart if necessary. Only because I am going to do the same. Please don't feel insulted, we just need to hammer it out.

East West

Portsmouth Milford
Oyster River H/B
Sanborn Con-Val
Plymouth Lebanon
Laconia Hanover
Windham Souhegan
Pembroke John Stark
Pelham Kearsarge
Goffs Bedford
Kingswood Coe-Brown
Bishop Brady Merrimack Valley
St. Thomas Kennett

This was not nearly as easy as I thought it might be. The NHIAA does have a tough time. The reason why I chose East-West is that you might be able to cut down on those two hour bus rides. But Kennett does stick a thorn in that theory.
Now ChiKid, remember I am not trying to pick on you. My problem with 4 divisions is it seems to me that there are power divisions, such as putting Pelham with Milford, Hollis/B, etc...Then you are asking Con-Val to have a bigger commute. Trust me I know it is tough. The other problem I have is playing each team twice is fine, it is the non-divisional games that I also have issue with. Most schools in your proposal are rivals within the Divisions. I also am kind of wary of teams building a tough schedule outside of Divisions. The reason being is that wins are the most important thing. Another issue is that you play 10 games in your division, theoretically you could end up with a bunch of teams in a division with 5-5 records.
That brings up the next step; is there a point system, tiebreakers, etc...
Please don't be shy about throwing suggestions my way.
Bigman don't worry you are next. LOL

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Chi-Kid

Post  boxout on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:20 am

Can you also explain how this system is not going to have the same problems we have now. I know it is only a rough draft, I just figuring this all out.
Bigman right now, I think yours is the best, yes even over mine. I had same problem with proximity of some schools, the Concord area schools and South-Central schools (Milf, HB,..Etc) are all so close to one another, you almost can't separate them.
Now I need you to break it down more, you play each team in Conference once, then what? That would be 11 games, so 7 against non-conference. Much like my system I don't think you are changing much. We are still going to deal with issues of teams playing weaker/stronger teams.
I give you credit you are not far off. You just need to work some kinks out.

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DII Re-Alignment Empty Boxout

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:59 pm

Personally I like Chi-kid's, maybe a few tweeks but If I had the power and was going to change the NHIAA D2 scheduling based on my groups of NORTH/SOUTH I would do it like this: Yes play everyone in your division. Like you said there's 11 games for all of the teams/schools. This would limit travel for almost all schools other than a few but nothings perfect. I would keep the home and home games such as Milford Souhegan each getting a game at home, but limit it to two teams so example Milford could've done it with Souhegan and Pelham but cut H/B and Conval. I'd do this because often 1 or more of these teams are struggling and this is not only happening here in Milford it often happens with other home and homes around the state, Milford just an example, so by limiting it to only having home and homes with 2 teams you can keep the rivalries but trim the fat and have a more competitive schedule (These could change year to year). But with these Home and Home games you can only schedule in division, so that'd bring it to 13 scheduled games 5 remaining. The other remaining 5 must be scheduled with the opposite division, it's hard to demand anything as far as scheduling goes so I'll leave it at that. If you need clarification on anything let me know and this certainly not perfect I came up with it just now.

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