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NHIAA Points System - Page 2 Empty Re: NHIAA Points System

Post  GNG on Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:52 pm

Dover won their game,and Keene lost theirs.So it is like they played each other.There is no way Keene is beating Dover.

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NHIAA Points System - Page 2 Empty true

Post  boxout on Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:49 pm

I agree that Keene would not beat Dover, however will never know. Riding from Dover to Keene is a haul on bus, and vice-versa. Just saying anything can happen. Dover has had some strange games, scoring 27 points. In one, doing that you can lose to anybody.
I am not trying to get into a dispute, just pointing it out. I bet some of those teams battling Dover for seeding could have realistic gripe. Imagine if Dover played Pelham or Milford, the NHIAA may have dodged a bullet. If one team was good and the other terrible (DII), it could be an issue.

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Post  JAF on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:55 am

It's still odd that they are they are the only two to not play each other. Spaulding is further away, but yet they drove to Keene on a Friday night to open the season... If the late game time is an issue, play on Saturday then. Interesting to note that Dover got credit for 5 points on the NHIAA website for their victory over D2 St.Thomas. I thought I read at some point in time a win against a lower division team on the road counted for less. I know - those aren't the "official" standings, but that result could be a difference maker in seeding.

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:59 am

If Dover received 5 points for their home victory over St. Thomas then this new point system is a sham and should be terminated following this season.

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NHIAA Points System - Page 2 Empty D2 has even more issues

Post  chicagokid43 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:24 am

D2 has even more issues. Milford played 13 of the 24 teams. In that thirteen you had Pelham twice,Souhegan Twice,Portsmouth,Oyster River and Goffstown.
Kearsarge could still make the playoffs and two of their wins were against D3 teams.
Pembroke is going to get the 2 Seed and yet they did not play the toughest schedule completely avoiding Milford,Souhegan,Goffstown,and Oyster River.
Hanover could still get two home playoff games and they avoided Pelham,Portsmouth,Souhegan and Goffstown. As well as playing a team from Vermont.

The unbalanced schedule is something that needs to get removed from this state. The seedings this year are going to be way off. Some northern teams are getting seeds over southern teams that are much better and have played much tougher schedules.

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Post  JAF on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:55 am

Unbalanced schedules like D2/D3 use are just plain bad. I'm all for the smaller "conferences" within the same "division" proposal... While a change in the system is the "right" thing to do, one wonders if such a change will be possible or if the voting is like that for the toll system in NH. There's only a few representatives from the Merrimack area and thus they continue to get tollbooths at every exit... The parallel in basketball is - the "more in number" non-southern tier schools perhaps band together to make sure the system stays in place so their schools not only make the playoffs, but they get a home game too against some southern team that has to travel 2+ hours on a school night. I'm sure this can be solved just like the school funding issue drunken

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NHIAA Points System - Page 2 Empty re: DII has even more issues

Post  boxout on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:39 am

ChiKid your overall point is good one. Just remember though that Milford and Souhegan chose to play each other twice. Milford and H/B also have an agreement to play twice. I would point out that any team in top 6 could beat HB. By playing HB twice certainly weakens Milford's strength of schedule.
I respect that Milford played Pelham twice. But when schools purposely play against a team twice it doesn't help those teams that you mentioned. Maybe the real solution is to only play a team once.
I know this point is post-scheduling, but Milford played one game against Pelham with no Spirou and one game against Souhegan with no Gilligan.

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NHIAA Points System - Page 2 Empty Divisions make sense.

Post  chicagokid43 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:57 am

I do not think even the northern teams will argue that the schedules were even this year. With Kennet,Kingswood,Plymouth,Brady and Kearsarge all being down this year the Northern teams definitely had the easier road to seedings.

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NHIAA Points System - Page 2 Empty I agree Divisions might be answer

Post  boxout on Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:42 pm

With that said, I think you are totally overrating Milford's strength of schedule. The combined records of teams Milford has played is 127 wins and 135 losses. Not too mention that they also play Con-Val twice. They finish with Con-Val. Add Con-Val game not played yet and it comes out to 130 wins and 146 losses. This is a winning percentage of .471. Hardly a difficult schedule.
Don't get me wrong Milford will REPEAT, but the argument of Milford playing a tough schedule is very misleading. With teams like Con-Val twice, HB twice, Sanborn, Windham, and Bishop Brady, 7 of Milford's wins are against those teams that have combined 10 wins total.
I would think that the Pembroke-Hanover game will be made up. Though it may not. By the end of the season, you might find that Pembroke actually had a tougher schedule than Milford. Though neither is tough. Con-Val has three games left prediction, they lose all three. Making Milford's schedule even weaker.

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:11 pm

Good post boxout, tough to argue the numbers. I will say Milford has played the top tier teams (most of them) some twice, and beaten them all.

Maybe Milford should petition up?

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Post  Guest on Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:59 pm

Not saying Milford played an overwhelmingly tough schedule but to say really any of the north teams play a tougher schedule is kind of a joke. The numbers may be misleading. Pembrokes opponents may have a higher win total but with that said a lot of Pembrokes opponents are playing other teams from the north that are weak therefore most of Pembrokes opponents will have a higher record than if they were playing in the south, which then makes Pembrokes schedule look a lot tougher than it really is, if that makes sense.

Example there are more than just this one team but i'm just pointing this one out. Merrimack Valley 10-7. One of Pembrokes opponents. There ten wins include Sanborn, Laconia x2, Brady x 2, Kingswood, Conval, Plymouth, Kennett other win being against Windam from the south. A lot of Pembroke's opponents have schedules that look like that, so like I said there opponents will probably have a higher record than Milford's opponents but a lot of Milford's opponents have tougher schedules. Not to mention Pembroke is also playing the bottom feeders such as sanborn, brady, laconia. I hope this makes sense because I know what I'm trying to point out so if you need clarification let me know.

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Post  Guest on Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:16 pm

As for Milford petitioning up, I thought if they did it should've been 2 or even 4 years ago. I think that because the talent that would allow them to compete in D1 was arriving or already in the program. Then it would've allowed the current group to play in D1 while the JV team would be playing againts other d1 jv programs which would've made the transition for next year not as difficult. With that said I don't think Milford would be terrible next year in D1 but they certainly wouldn't do anything near what they did this year, I'd say they might be seeded anywhere from 7-12 possibly.

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Post  Guest on Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:56 pm

With an abundance of time on my hand I figured out Pembrokes Opponents totals- 128-165 (there opponents have played more games than Milfords) Milfords 131-148

Pembrokes Opponents winning%- .436

Milfords Opponents winning %- .469

So if you're going solely on numbers Milfords is still higher and even if we aren't, like I said earlier looking at who Pembrokes opponents played and look at who Milfords opponents had to play I'd say it makes Milford schedule look even stronger.

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NHIAA Points System - Page 2 Empty Nailed it Bigman44

Post  basketballtime on Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:49 pm

I was just about to say that but you beat me to the punch. It's obvious if you look at the schedule Pembroke plays or if you just look at how teams from the South ripped into the ones from the North.

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Post  boxout on Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:34 pm

I am not saying that either team had a tough schedule. But you can't really tally Pembroke until they play Hanover, if they play. That is a big game.
What Southern teams beat up on Northern teams? If you look closely, the schedules are pretty much the same. Once again you want to ignore the fact that Milford has feasted on bottom feeders, HB twice, Con-Val twice, Windham, Sanborn, and Bishop Brady. Milford has played the top teams too. If you guys sit and divide DII into North and South, you are going to be surprised that it is not the way it use to be. The new alignment has teams that were Southern schools to Northern schools. Go ahead and do it, I would be curious to see. but clearly HB and Windham would be Southern Schools. Those teams certainly are not beating any teams never mind North or South. Quickly looking Con-Val is probably a Southern school now.
3 of the top 5 teams in DII come from the North in my opinion.
I think you need to look at where schools are now, it is not what it use to be.




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Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:41 pm

Add Sanborn to the "Southern" teams. 0-17.

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Post  basketballtime on Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:51 pm

Look at a team like Hanover who got crushed at home against Milford by thirty plus and could have been fifty if they played the starting team the whole game. I don't see that when a Milford plays a Pelham or Soughegan, Goffstown or Portsmouth and so on. but yet you see Hanover sitting pretty in fith place and Pembroke who has played maybe two or three tough teams sitting pretty at the two spot?

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Post  boxout on Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:54 pm

Very good point on Sanborn. It is a great debate and I am not sure you could even do North South for Divisions, it might have to be East West. I guess as they always say, "that is why they play the games."

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:00 pm

East/West might be more logical. Maybe. I'll wait till the offseason before I open up that can of worms but if anybody else wants to take a stab at realignment it's always fun for converstation.

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Post  Guest on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:12 pm

If the south gets sanborn we get all the Coastal teams correct? I'm going through and posting all the games that were 15 plus with a south victory and 15 plus with a north victory.

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Post  Guest on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:14 pm

East of what though I mean it'll take away from the north south discussion/Milford Pembroke discussion as I think they'd be both in the east but i'll do it either way.

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NHIAA Points System - Page 2 Empty Bigman

Post  boxout on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:19 pm

Can't wait to see it. I can't give you all Seacoast teams, Portsmouth is North of Sanborn. If you can squeeze it go for it. I am dying to see. I don't think the 15 point wins really matters, it is a good idea, but can lead to inaccuracies. But don't think that Milford is the only team that sits players in blowouts.
No Milford maybe in the West. Say West of Manchester.


Last edited by boxout on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Milford)

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Post  Guest on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:24 pm

Lol you're throwing me off do you want it north and south or east and west I'm fine doing it either way. I"ve always thought it was concord or above was north but I'll go solely on your standards and you may be right on your standards but classify which coastal teams are going with the south.


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NHIAA Points System - Page 2 Empty Clarify what teams are where and north vs. south and I'll gladly do it

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:26 pm

I have not once said Milford is the only team that sits kids in blowouts. Just figured 15 pts+ was the best way to judge it since I haven't been to all of the games i'm going to look into. I can do it on 20+ wins if that's better, or solely combined records from the north to the south. Clarify what exactly you want me to do and what coastal teams the south get and I'll do it. I'm also not doing this for Milford more for the North South discussion. Also if Portsmouth, Oyster River, St thomas, aka the coast all are magically in the north now and only sanborn and windham are considered southern teams you're probably right then the "north" would be "better"


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NHIAA Points System - Page 2 Empty I like 4 divisions

Post  chicagokid43 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:41 pm

I like 4 divisions and 16 get in. 6 teams in each conference, play your conference home and away for your first 10 games. Then you can play outside your division,outside of your conference or even outside your state for the other 8 games. I like the idea of only counting 6 of those games for your out of conference win percentage. That would allow teams to play up or down for a couple games without hurting their playoff seeding. Use your conference seedings to set the tourney. Alternate seeding based on how your conference did outside the division. Highest Win percentage outside your conference earns that conference the top seed. Thus giving that conference the 1 seed, the 7th seed and so on... that would seed the teams with real numbers on how they played in their conference and how the conference did outside the conference. It would also force teams to crossover to other divisions in the first round of the tourney and so on throughout the tourney and if two teams in one conference were the best two in the state it would allow them to not see each other in the first two rounds. So if there was a dominant conference the conference would still have a chance to get into the final four without facing each other until the final four.
This type of thing balances the schedule and seeds teams in a way that they could save some money on travel by staying local for 10 games it helps build local rivalries both inside your conference as well as outside your division. It would also make for an exciting tourney as all year you would hear who the powers were in each division and many would not play each other until the playoffs. I think the tourney should be new faces and new matchups..


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