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Post  chicagokid43 on Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:04 am

Over the weekend I seen several referee's and they all seem to have a theory on why you shouldn't make calls in so called Showcase games. One guy told me you aren't here to see me ref you are here to see the kids play... my answer to that is.. yes here to see them play basketball not football. For the guy who said we would be here all night I say.. No you would have a cleaner game by halftime because the players that are hacking would be in foul trouble. Refereeing has become a fraternity in which they practice the terms in which to use to justify not calling the game by the rules. The rules do not change just because you want to go home. Hard for me to teach my kid to play the game right when you are willing to adjust the rules based on the game being a showcase.

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:06 am

"Showcase" or "All Star" games are definitely a different animal. At most levels, the players play the game differently ie no defense. Now it would seem to me if kids were hacking each other and playing physical defense then this recent game you were at was not played that way, and the official need to adjust to the scenario.

So in most cases, I think an official will not need to make so many calls, based on the way the game is played. I would support the officials letting the "ticky-tack" fouls go uncalled in an effort to maintain flow to the game and save the fans from being there all night. But obviously if hard fouls are committed, obvious hacks, etc. those need to be called to maintain the integrity of the game, and sport.

But in general I agree, if they are going to have referees, they should call things by the rulebook. But it's an All-Star game that means absolutely nothing, so you're not gonna get the effort an official may put forth in a Playoff game. It's just reality.

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Post  chicagokid43 on Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:45 am

Showcases are often more physical because the players feel that defense and physical play is what a college coach is looking for. Someone who can play with contact and still finish. This was definitely the case most of the day yesterday. Anytime you put 20 of the most competitive players on the floor at the same time things can get rough. I do not have as much of an issue with bumping in the post and stuff on the ground but too many times yesterday I saw players out of position behind the play while a player is going in to finish. When a player is in the air it is up to the referee to call contact. NO player in a game should have to worry about being taken out while in the air without the chance of getting a call. Once again I seen referee's that didn't call the game by the rules and only called the game as little as possible to ... Keep the game moving... it is just silly.

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:54 pm

Sounds like they should have called it tighter. It also depends on the referee in general. There are plenty of officials out there that "let them play".

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:07 pm

1) I'm pretty sure ChiKid/HoosierDaddy/MJ Mitch33 complained about officiating last season, during the Fall League and now in these Showcase games. Am I sensing a pattern here?

2) Who is Tom?

3) 2010-11 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
1. RULES ENFORCEMENT. There appears to be continued movement away from consistent enforcement of NFHS playing rules. Personal interpretations of the rules by individual officials have a negative impact on the game. The rules are written to provide a balance between offense and defense, minimize risk to participants, promote the sound tradition of the game and promote fair play. Individual philosophies and deviations from the rules as they are written and interpreted by the NFHS, negatively impact the basic tenets and fundamentals of the game. Illegal tactics that are permitted – are promoted. When officials allow players to use illegal tactics without penalty, the behavior is condoned and consequently encouraged. When officials consistently enforce the playing rules as intended, players and coaches are able to make the proper adjustments – promoting skill development and a level playing field.

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I am sure Tom will respond to this one. Empty Toms right here...Hi

Post  Tom on Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:09 pm

Good answer T&F.....You sound like you know what you are talking about. I think the guy that can’t decide what his screen name is should work a couple of games and let the refs critique him...haha Rolling Eyes

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I am sure Tom will respond to this one. Empty I agree... you should see me ref.

Post  chicagokid43 on Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:18 pm

I have a ref shirt to sir. I also know when I wear it I do not take into consideration the score or the type of game it is. Sometimes it is very obvious when a ref just decides his goal is to move the game along. I have never been in such a hurry that I would not make a call just to stay on schedule. I have never not made a call because I want to not interrupt the flow of the game and I would never not make a call because a coach wants to see a player play through contact. All things that I heard over the weekend from officials that seen contact that would be by the rules a foul and swallowed the whistle for those reasons. I even had a official that I have respect for tell me that these guys won't hurt each other because they are friends. Ignoring the fact that you usually play twice as hard to avoid losing to a friend. All this gets worse with every referee's excuse for not making calls. It was obvious in this situation and I was not the only one that saw it. It was not a game where my team lost and I was looking for an excuse and in some occasions it was not even my son playing. It needs to be discussed and inexperienced referee's need to take this JOB more serious.

Happy Thanksgiving.

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I am sure Tom will respond to this one. Empty I couldn't find these new rule changes in the book?

Post  basketballtime on Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:46 pm

I'M with you here on this one Chikid. I doubt they are taught this way of officiating while becoming a patched offical? I have seen enough games in NH to know that there no question a lack of good officials out there. Now am i saying everyone is horrible? No that's not what I'M saying but when i see calls the make no sense or made up calls or refs out of position on the court and then making a call by guessing or not even bothering to cross half court to catch up with the play and then make a call, i shake my head and say how is that fair to anyone of those kids on the court? Oh well it is what it is. Shocked

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Post  chicagokid43 on Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:38 pm

It is definitely a depth problem in New Hampshire. While the total outcome of the games being played this time of year do not mean much I feel you can teach players real bad habits by allowing players to get away with things that during the season a experienced official would call. The more consistent the officiating is the more the players understand what they can or cannot get away with.
This is one of the reasons I have always felt that the high school season should be on alternate nights. I had the pleasure of watching many lower level class I games with my daughters team and I know how bad some of the referees that get those games can be. The one way to really limit the exposure of bad referees to high school games would be a Monday and Thursday schedule for the girls and a Tuesday Friday schedule for the boys.
As for AAU events and showcases. I think the directors of the tourneys need to do two things. Schedule more time for each game to take the pressure off the referees to stay on time and communicate to the refs that you want the game called pure the rules of the game not the Move it along way that many feel is needed to stay on schedule.

AAU
One last thing that I think really needs to be discussed is the fees that many of these guys make is a very good salary for the time served. Most AAU tourneys pay 30-35 dollars a game which works out to be at least 20$ an hour on most situations. When you pay someone 20$ an hour you deserve a solid job to be done and the rules to be enforced wether the time is running late or not.
Also the teams that go to many of these tourneys are paying upwards of 400 to as much as 600 dollars for 3-4 games. Simple math tells me that for a team that pays 400 getting 4 games means that the profits for these tourneys is more than enough for the players to be protected and the games to be called per the rules.

That is a few of the reasons why I feel cheated and the players get so frustrated with the lack of calls in these events.

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