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Pembroke Part II

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Post  1moreknowitall on Wed May 21, 2014 6:04 pm

There's no such thing as off the record. If you don't want someone to quote you, then you don't say anything to anyone.

The ironic thing is that I read the Notebook article and thought it was heavily slanted as being pro Pembroke so it could have been worse. It sounds like the NHNotebook vs. NHSportspage rivalry is just as big as Central vs. Trinity.

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Post  NHRamFan on Wed May 21, 2014 7:12 pm

It would seem I've struck a nerve regarding the NHIAA. Understand that I'm NOT advocating for its dissolution. What I was saying and continue to assert is that it is very wishy washy in its current state. It derives its authority from the member schools, but defers most issues BACK to the schools. It steps to the fore when it or the Executive Director decide to do so. Schedules are done by one of the AD's in each division. No two similar situations are dealt with in the same way - causing the fallout that we have come to see all too often of late.
I AM advocating for a new and improved NHIAA. One that derives its power from the member institutions, and (within preset boundaries) has the say in various matters regarding a myriad of issues - eligibility, discipline, etc. One that sets the schedules for each division. One that sets the rules for the member institutions to abide by. One that metes out appropriate sanctions, in an even handed way, when rules are broken and sanctions are called for.
Yes - I know that each school district has its own policies, especially regarding eligibility and discipline. However, I'm sure all of us can cite a large volume of examples where rules are bent because a key player is really needed for a big game of some kind. When it comes to creating an even playing field, perhaps the member institutions should/would be willing to a let the governing body (with input from said member institutions) create what the rules are that everyone would abide by. Example - caught consuming alcohol at an off site event. Institution A suspends the player for 6 months. Institution B says - well, it's an off site issue so we're going to force him to serve in school detention. But he/she won't miss any games! If committees are formed to determine appropriate sanctions, then member schools would have no issues adhering to the rules - if they want to be a part of the NHIAA. Right now everyone gets to pick what they want to do; when they want to do it; and how they should do it. Result - the kluge we now see.
The times have changed; the NHIAA hasn't. It's time to move away from chatting around the pickle barrel and enter the 21st century. I, for one, have high expectations for the new ED. I think it was an excellent choice.

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Post  Hoopfan12 on Wed May 21, 2014 7:35 pm

Well put

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Post  FormerFalcoln on Wed May 21, 2014 10:35 pm

@ NHTamFan - the NHIAA already does exactly what you want it to do. The NHIAA gets its power form the member schools, because the member schools are the NHIAA. Eligibility is a committee of ADs and principals. The ED steps in when the committee fails to rule or an interpretation of the rules is required. Individual sports committees set the rules for sports. Rules as to operations and functions of the NHIAA are set by a committee of members on the competition committee or the executive council. All of the policies and procedures are reviewed each year by each sport committees. The by laws are reviewd and set by the executive council each year. Where the issue lies is with the execution of following the rules in which each member school is free to self police. You outlined what you want to see, and that IS what the NHIAA already does. You stated you think member schools would /should let the governing body set the rules they all abide by. That is what has happened. The sanctions for member schools not following suit are clearly spelled out. Understand the reasons for what has happened with respect to Pembroke. the athletic director and the headmaster did not abide and did not follow the bylaws appropriately in self policing thier institution. That DI meeting was over 3 hours long. It was not Pat Corbin standing up with an edict and then a vote. Coach Alosa was invited and declined to attend. So it is relevant that he was quoted as commenting on what happened and he was not there to even hear his own schools ideas, plans, and presentation. The question and answer between the AD's and the Pembroke administration was over an hour. The group deliberated for over an hour before the vote (that is direct from 5 different ADs I have seen in the past 3 weeks). There were over 40 administrators present, but each school was only given 1 vote. 17-2 to deny them a schedule is beyond an overwhelming majority. The NHIAA executive council allowed this vote to stand as this IS giving the member institutions the power and the representation directly. I have discuss this with 7 different AD's over the past 3 weeks when I have gone to umpire or watch games. All 7 voted no schedule and all have said the NHIAA has the evidence - HAVE evidence - of recruitment or strong suggestions for Raiders players to attend PA. Hell, even a parent of a 6th grade Raider player pledged thier loyalty to the program in comments in the Concord Monitor. This attention was brought on PA by PA. simple as that. There are over 100 member institutions in the NHIAA. Ask yourself why Pembroke,which has had an EXCELLENT reputation in NH is having issues? answer, they did not follow the rules everyone else has. Not one, but two players leave Merrimack Valley for Pembroke? there are no other MV players in other sports now at Pembroke. There are no other programs at Pembroke that have brought the scrutiny on themselves the way the basketball program has.

The executive director has power when the member institutions give them power. That is what has happened. DII schools were already on board to not schedule Pembroke this season. PA leaned about the coup and decided to go to DI where they decided to do the same ONLY when they had heard that Pembroke had no plan to address the issue. They gave Pembroke thier say. They allowed Pembroke to come up with the ability to change what has happened. They did not. As for scheduling, the NHIAA schedules sports in stages. Small assigned groups of AD's design a master schedule. Then member schools can adjust accordingly. The reason the NHIAA does not set master schedules for everyone: individual considerations for Tavel, budgets, districts that do not allow for early release & missed class time, local rivalries, size of divisions that are inequitable, schools with sports in one sport, but not another, petitioning up or down,.... The list keeps going.

This still comes down to Pembroke has bent rules, looked for the rules that are not written, and tired to run under the premise of loopholes and lose interpretations. This is the fault of the athletic director and the headmaster. The path keeps coming back to the two people charged with being the NHIAA liaisons for Pembroke -Klink and Reardon. I already stated in earlier posts, one of them IS "resigning", it will come out once school ends. I is a mess that adults created and they will end up paying the price.

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Post  Jeremy Leveille on Thu May 22, 2014 12:29 am

HaleyNHsports wrote:I hadn’t weighed in on this topic on the forum because I feel like McIsaac and I covered that in two separate radio shows. I’ve actually enjoyed reading everyone’s back & forth and was happy to sit back and be the reader for once.

Something though was posted earlier in the week that I can’t stay quiet about.

I stopped by the state AAU tournament for about 90 minutes on Saturday to see the son of a good friend of mine play and ended up spending the entire time catching up with coaches, players & parents.

One of those conversations was with Matt Alosa. I hadn’t spoken or seen Coach Alosa since being in the winning locker room with Pete Tarrier at UNH.

We spoke off the record (as every conversation I had at the tournament was) about the Pembroke situation, his insight into where it stood and his thoughts on how the process is playing out. As we were talking Jeremy Leveille nosed his way in (this is a textbook Jeremy move since 2008) and stood listening but mostly nodding approval at everything Matt said. After a few minutes I turned my attention back to the game and other friends/associates and wished Coach Alosa well.

So you can imagine my surprise and disbelief when I read Jeremy’s article with full on quotes from Matt Alosa. As I read it two things struck me 1) Wow…Matt has kept things pretty close to the vest as this investigation (is that what we’re calling it?) went on. The Union Leader and Concord Monitor have to be calling every week yet they weren’t getting anything short of a sound bite out of him (having been advised to do so by attorneys involved I’m sure) and here is Jeremy with all this material.

And 2) these quotes are the EXACT CONVERSATION Matt was having with me.

When Matt and I were talking we were,,talking,,this wasn't a press conference or an interview. I didn’t have a recording devise and neither did Jeremy. I remembered an incident a couple of years ago where Jim Mulvey wanted to ring Jeremy’s neck because he quoted him off the record and out of context…and here we were again. Or so I thought.

So I called Matt Alosa today and asked him straight out if Jeremy had told him he was using your quotes? Did he tell you were not only talking to me but you were being interviewed by his eavesdropping?

Matt told me he absolutely did not want Jeremy quoting him and not only that but Jeremy screwed up the quote. Matt was not only quoted off the record but misquoted at the same time.  He went on to explain he was having a conversation with me that was to remain between the two of us and anyone else listening…just not Jeremy’s few hundred readers.

So this brings us back to something I covered on my & Pete’s radio show during the Jimmy Stanley saga at Epping. I had 45 minute conversations with Epping coach Sean Young about the situation and never once used anything he didn’t want me to. I’ve had hours of conversations about Pembroke with coaches and will never use it. I protect these coaches because my integrity and reputation with their private details about the players & their programs is the most important aspect of my coverage. Not to go all Kirk Minihane on everyone but this is why people call us bloggers’ so derisively. It’s said for something like what Jeremy did and has done in the past. That’s why I flinch when I’m called a blogger or am ever lumped in with him.

It’s about integrity. Matt Alosa is not happy at all that Jeremy listened in on a conversation and presented it like an interview on the record. You might have liked the information and material but it was never meant to be read…and that’s something I couldn’t stay quiet about.

I asked Matt if I could use his feelings about Jeremy writing his column using those quotes and he said “Absolutely…do it.”

There is your Matt Alosa quote.

Well Dave, I'll explain myself to you even though the only person who I owe any explanation to here is Matt Alosa (and I already spoke to Matt on the phone today about this).

When news came out about Pembroke not being allowed on the D-I schedule I was asked to go on ESPN NH and discuss it with Nick Anastos. I told Nick that since this was such a sensitive issue I wanted to wait until I had a chance to speak with / interview at least one of the parties involved before discussing it on the air (like a responsible reporter). I immediately e-mailed both Matt Alosa and Pinkerton A.D. Tim Powers. Tim got right back to me and I spoke to him over the phone about the situation.

Then we get to the AAU State Tournament - one of the biggest events of the year for NH basketball. Over 50 teams in attendance, all of the state's top local players on display, numerous college and prep school coaches - a must see event for any hoop junkie. So naturally I went to the event to cover it. I gave up my whole weekend to be there, spent over 15 hours in the gym watching basketball, not getting paid a dime by anybody, all so I could write an article for the New England Recruiting Report that would hopefully lead to an increase in recruitment for the 20+ local athletes that my article profiled. Of course Dave you don't mention any of that.

Pembroke basketball is the biggest story in the state right now and I knew Alosa would be there. So you can bet I had my notebook and pen out the whole 15 hours I was there. You may have been there to make casual chit chat with coaches but I was there to work.

Not too long after I showed up on Saturday Alosa came into the gym with his team. I walked by and was immediately greeted by him, Pat Welch and Jamie Timbas. During this time I had a private conversation with Jamie Timbas and I also had a separate, private conversation with Matt Alosa. During these conversations did I have a notebook and pen in my hand? Of course I did. I thought it was assumed that these conversations were on the record. In fact, at one point when I was speaking to Jamie Timbas he said how one of the A.D.'s actually said they were going to try and get his son's eligibility taken away. I asked Jamie which A.D. it was. He told me the A.D.'s name but only "off the record." See, Jamie Timbas knew our conversation was on the record. So I included in my article that one of the A.D.'s was coming after his son, but I did the responsible thing and didn't say which A.D. it was because I was asked to keep that part of it off the record. At no point during my conversations with Matt Alosa over the weekend did he tell me to keep anything off the record.

Long after all of these conversations took place Dave walked into the gym. Like I did all weekend, I was simultaneously taking notes on which ever game I was watching, while also talking with coaches, parents or players who were nearby. I look over and you and Matt Alosa are standing there. We're all talking, and Matt is defending himself and his program. Pembroke basketball is the biggest story in the state right now. Here we are, in the middle of one of the biggest basketball events of the year. And Alosa is standing there next to two local sports reporters (myself and Dave) who both cover his team extensively. I had a notebook and pen in my hand (as I always do when I'm in a gym). How is that conversation NOT on the record? If Matt told me to keep anything he said off the record (like Jamie Timbas did) then I would have. But he didn't. So I ran the article. Not only that but the article I ran painted Pembroke in a very positive light.

Well Dave, there you have it. The only person I should have owed any type of explanation to was Matt Alosa, it was between him and I only. There was a miscommunication, but I spoke to him on the phone earlier today and it's been sorted out. So why you felt the need to go on a public forum and bash me I have no idea. I've said this before but apparently it needs to be said again - if you have an issue with something I put on my site then please keep it private and either call, text or email me about it.

Thank you.

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Post  JustinMcIsaac on Thu May 22, 2014 9:19 am

Wait, so if Jeremy is carrying a notebook, all things that are said within ear shot of said notebook are fit to be published whether those parties involved know they're on the record or not, but if someone takes umbrage with this EXTREMELY loose interpretation of how journalism works, that is to be kept private?

 Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing 

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu May 22, 2014 10:00 am

Personally, unless its an obvious interview type situation (like after a game) then I'm going to ask the individual if it can be used in a story. If you're going to assume that everything is on the record you'll find less and less coaches will talk to you. So, do it however you want, but just be prepared for the consequences.

The irony of your 400+ word response is that there is a sentence in there that's 19 words long that would have been the perfect response to Dave's post.

Jeremy Leveille wrote: There was a miscommunication, but I spoke to him on the phone earlier today and it's been sorted out.

Clearly you realized the error (before or after reading Dave's post we'll probably never know for sure) and contacted Coach Alosa at which point my assumption (ohhh never a good idea to do this...) is that you apologized to him for not only misquoting him but using them in the first place. That was the right move. Why you spent 380 additional words before that trying to justify your use of quotes is sort of odd given you gave him a call to clear it up.

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Post  newtothismom on Thu May 22, 2014 10:27 am

Thank you HaleyNHSports for pointing out the lack of journalistic integrity of the NHNotebook blog.  I wish people would just call it what it is an opinion page of one individual who watches sports and likes to promote certain individuals/programs for which I can't say I know the reason but I have have my suspicions ($$).  For some reason people have allowed him more recognition than he deserves under the guise of promoting NH sports.  He refuses to discontinue the rating of HS players based on his opinion which has been an issue with me for years.  If more people would call out this type of blog less players would pay attention to these ratings and maybe people would start to understand the connections going on between AAU promotion and these blogs. Be careful though, once called out on his transgression, out comes the bully.


Last edited by newtothismom on Thu May 22, 2014 12:31 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Post  Not in the know on Thu May 22, 2014 11:48 am

@FormerFalcoln

For someone who has professed that he does not know or has not had any contact or does not have an ax to grind with the Alosas; you seem to spend an awful lot of time investigating and questioning people about the Pembroke situation.

Just making an observation.......

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Post  Jeremy Leveille on Thu May 22, 2014 12:05 pm

Not in the know wrote:@FormerFalcoln

For someone who has professed that he does not know or has not had any contact or does not have an ax to grind with the Alosas; you seem to spend an awful lot of time investigating and questioning people about the Pembroke situation.

Just making an observation.......

I was thinking the same thing!

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Post  tom2 on Thu May 22, 2014 12:11 pm

well, I liked your article Jeremy! I especially liked the part where you put my son on the list of recruit prospects for the New England recruiting report Very Happy

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Post  littlegreen on Thu May 22, 2014 12:13 pm

Jeremy you are embarrassing yourself.

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Post  JAF on Thu May 22, 2014 12:28 pm

Eliot - well good luck splitting this topic between the multitude of conversations taking place between bashing one side or the other, the Timbas situation, the alleged recruiting at Pembroke, the lack of a schedule for Pembroke, the integrity/value of the NHIAA, amongst other side jabs and comments from left field...

I understand your reason for splitting out those particular comments, but I also think they were an "interesting" part of the flow of conversation regarding how the media, bloggers, families, and [dis]interested parties are reacting to what has become such a bizarre offseason situation.

I am curious though - did T&F hide under a rock or in a basement in the hopes of this current Hurricane/Twister blowing over? Not a peep from him regarding this. I have to imagine he was on the court this past weekend and heard all sorts of interesting stuff - on or off the record.

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu May 22, 2014 12:52 pm

You're probably right...perhaps a merge is in order.  The people have spoken (you weren't the first to mention this to me today).

I'm a man of the people, this is your forum, not mine.  What a Face 

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Post  The Edge on Thu May 22, 2014 2:06 pm

newtothismom wrote:Thank you HaleyNHSports for pointing out the lack of journalistic integrity of the NHNotebook blog.  I wish people would just call it what it is an opinion page of one individual who watches sports and likes to promote certain individuals/programs for which I can't say I know the reason but I have have my suspicions ($$).  For some reason people have allowed him more recognition than he deserves under the guise of promoting NH sports.  He refuses to discontinue the rating of HS players based on his opinion which has been an issue with me for years.  If more people would call out this type of blog less players would pay attention to these ratings and maybe people would start to understand the connections going on between AAU promotion and these blogs. Be careful though, once called out on his transgression, out comes the bully.

A blog is someones opinions. Personally, I think both sites are doing a great service to kids in NH basketball. I can tell you from my recruiting visits with college coaches that both sites are visited often. Whether it is Jeremy's rankings or Dave's all state selection to think that either site is anything more than just the author's opinion is foolish. If you do not like ranking High School aged players do not look at it. If your kid is adversely effected by the ranking take him to the gym and tell him to work on his game to get ranked.

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Post  Jeremy Leveille on Thu May 22, 2014 2:08 pm

EBlessNHSP wrote:Clearly you realized the error (before or after reading Dave's post we'll probably never know for sure) and contacted Coach Alosa at which point my assumption (ohhh  never a good idea to do this...) is that you apologized to him for not only misquoting him but using them in the first place.  That was the right move.  Why you spent 380 additional words before that trying to justify your use of quotes is sort of odd given you gave him a call to clear it up.

Matt Alosa had a question about something I put in my article. Did he go on a public forum and air it out? Of course not. He called me up. Once I got off work I returned his call and we sorted it out like civil people.


Last edited by Jeremy Leveille on Thu May 22, 2014 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  newtothismom on Thu May 22, 2014 2:35 pm

The Edge, you are naïve. Plenty of kids work hard playing their sport and are not ranked. This is a small network of people promoting AAU programs and players. Luckily college coaches are smart enough to realize that they have to see a kid play often and don't rely on these opinions. Perhaps they also have suspicions. If anything the rankings are building up expectations of kids that are ranked and minimizing the accomplishments of others who aren't with the "right program". Why do you think the Pembroke kids want to play so bad for the Alosas. They think they can get them college opportunities and extra looks by coaches. If parents want to pay for their kids to get that opportunity, that is fine. I just don't think we should pretend that some blogger is giving impartial rankings.

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Post  Hooper on Thu May 22, 2014 2:55 pm

Wow,

Jeremy's blog is what it is. NO ONE has to look at it if they don't want to.

People get ranked, get over it. Anytime a parent accuses an impartial observer as biased it is laughable. Someone's Mom has a more valid opinion of rankings than Jeremy? Someone's Mom is accusing Jeremy of being biased? that's hysterical

Thank you Jeremy for the positive attention you bring the NH kids in hoop. Hope you and Dave can make up over a beer. You both do great things for the kids.

Beer Summit at Auburn Pitts?

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Post  tom2 on Thu May 22, 2014 2:59 pm

I wonder if she would be complaining if her son was ranked where she would like him to be? Is it a fairness thing?

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Post  sjsprague on Thu May 22, 2014 3:17 pm

Ok, I have been reading all the opinions of the contributors  to this story, but enough is enough.  Nobody who has commented has any idea what the end result will be.

Let's move on to a different subject and stop beating a dead horse!

Interesting commentary, but has become old news.

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Post  JAF on Thu May 22, 2014 3:29 pm


You don't have to read it if you don't want to  Very Happy Very Happy  Sorry just couldn't resist - it was like a free throw or a ball sitting on a Tee

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Post  The Edge on Thu May 22, 2014 3:40 pm

newtothismom wrote:The Edge, you are naïve.  Plenty of kids work hard playing their sport and are not ranked.  This is a small network of people promoting AAU programs and players.  Luckily college coaches are smart enough to realize that they have to see a kid play often and don't rely on these opinions.  Perhaps they also have suspicions.   If anything the rankings are building up expectations of kids that are ranked and minimizing the accomplishments of others who aren't with the "right program".  Why do you think the Pembroke kids want to play so bad for the Alosas.  They think they can get them college opportunities and extra looks by coaches.   If parents want to pay for their kids to get that opportunity, that is fine.  I just don't think we should pretend that some blogger is giving impartial rankings.    

Jeremy's ranking consists of kids from every AAU program in NH. At least the ones I am familiar with. How is that biased? I did not say that the college coaches refer to theses rankings and make decisions. My son was not getting a sniff from anybody until he played in a Fall Ball league in North Andover. Every night there was a number of coaches there. The point I was trying to make is in every meeting my son and I had with the coaches everyone of them brought up something that was on either Dave's or Jeremy's site so i can guarantee they look at them.

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu May 22, 2014 3:47 pm

Rankings are fun to talk about but at the end of the day the only exposure it gives them is to other parents.  To think college coaches put stock in any rankings (not just JL's) is laughable.  The parents and the kids are the ones that are providing the pageviews.  

At the end of the day it wont be a ranking, a tweet or a mix tape that provides the student athlete noticeability. Its their interactions with their coaches, fans, other players and parents coupled with their workout regime and play on the field/court that provides them the "exposure" that one needs who's aspiring to play at then next level.

BTW we are officially way off topic so there's that....

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Post  sjsprague on Thu May 22, 2014 4:27 pm

This eternal discussion regarding the Pembroke basketball program has been entertaining but
it is time to let go.

Nobody who has commented has any idea what the final outcome will be.  Time to move on to a new subject.  Let's wait and see what happens to Mr. Timbas and the Pembroke BB program.

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Post  The Edge on Thu May 22, 2014 4:33 pm

sjsprague wrote:This eternal discussion regarding the Pembroke basketball program has been entertaining but
it is time to let go.

Nobody who has commented has any idea what the final outcome will be.  Time to move on to a new subject.  Let's wait and see what happens to Mr. Timbas and the Pembroke BB program.

I agree can we please go back to bashing Londonderry parents, coaches, AD, and school administrators, and school board.

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