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Tournament schedules....and it's a mess

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Post  JAF on Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:28 pm

What's your definition of qualified? Patched? Tournament battle tested? 1, 3, 5, 10, ? years of tournament experience? How is one to get tournament experience without getting their first tournament game? Theory would say that an official who must pass a rules test every year, a mechanics test every other year, and go through peer evaluations for each game would and should be qualified. Are some officials better than others - oh yeah - most definitely. Are some good officials "languishing" at the JV levels - perhaps, but they get discovered soon enough one way or another. Officials can go through a mentor program and they can have a board member come do a more thorough evaluation of a game. As a coach you may not "see" the official you want, but they are qualified to IAABO and NHIAA standards. Seems to me you have an axe to grind against officials or perhaps certain officials. Insinuating that (some) officials are biased or partial doesn't bode well. If you already think it before you go to a venue, then what circumstance would change that? Your team getting all the calls? Well guess what your opposing coach is thinking? Very Happy 

The tournament assignment process is taken seriously, but it's not fool proof. Officials are asked every year to let it be known if they could have a conflict. For instance, a child that went to a particular school in the last 3-5 years... A personal or professional (outside the game) relationship with a specific coach or athletic director. Believe it or not there is a process that is used to assign officials to tourney games - I couldn't really describe it - way above my pay grade!

As to your question of "Is there enough refs?"... Suffice to say the various local IAABO boards have more than enough officials available - every Tuesday and Friday there are varsity and junior varsity games being held at all levels for far more teams than make the playoffs for both boys and girls.

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Post  Guest on Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:24 am

That's how you got POY, maken sure we hoop fans stay informed. Thanks for all the info. There r some very good refs in this state and then there's the other ones that need more experience. I have trouble with the few that have hidden agendas yes. But for the most part they are all really doing there best. There is several that did my games 30Yrs. Ago. I know the difference. Never implied I like home cooking. "Impartial" Twisted Evil 
Tuesday and Friday filled in for Pete T. On the Sat morning NH hoop show with Dave. Late January. I'm sure they where talking about how bad the officiating was state wide. That the NHIAA had addressed it for the first time. T and F gave the incidental contact class. It was a good show.  I'm not an axe grinder. That like eating poison and hopen someone else dies. Let the games begin....

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Post  HaleyNHsports on Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:31 am

In regards to the officiating it is a very valid point, you don't know who Eliot is quoting but it would be very safe to assume it is a coach that has a tremendous amount of pull & respect in NH basketball.

The people that lead the officials in the state realize their is a big problem and to their credit they have coaches now naming five officials they would like to see work their games, they also asked a prominent Division I coach to address the officials at their meeting so they recognize there is a real problem. Take it from someone who has had T & F wagging his finger in my face about officiating (and that isn't happening again..).. I understand his loyalty and passion...both are good things. But there is a problem and for the first time in years it seems to be acknowledged on both sides.

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Post  JAF on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:07 am


Coaches can I think black list too, but don't quote me Laughing (hahaha)

Given histories it could be difficult to get to a championship round and not find a situation where a coach thinks that an official assigned to a game either has a personal axe to grind or has some sort of bias against their team. I think we could easily cite some examples from last year, but that'd be counter productive and perhaps career limiting Shocked.

Theory would say the final 4 games would have the top 12 officials assigned, but since assignments are made way in advance of teams playing the game it's difficult to not have the chance that there's going to be a "conflict". Those assignments are hashed out between the officials and basketball/tournament committee. Perhaps akin to picking your 12 best players for a Little League All Star team (hahaha). The top 5-8 are easy, but there's bound to be disagreements on the rest.

Can we also agree that the top 68 NCAA hoop teams make the tourney every year? Is there always someone left out? Does someone get in that may not be deserving? And forget about the football situation :-)... If you think how that NCAA hoop committee works to select the teams - I think you could draw some comparisons to how officials are chosen. Whether the same process exists in other states - who knows, but I'd have to assume it's similar.

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Post  sjsprague on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:25 am

I don't understand the point of this discussion.  I thought that officiating was not a topic that the Sports Forum promoted.

Suffice to say, If a team is good enough it will battle through tough calls to prevail regardless who is officiating.  This is a moot point in regard to the NHIAA tournament schedule.

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:28 am

Nice point SJ. Your coffee must've had "qualified" caffeine in it this morning Wink 


I'm not going to dwell on this because it's far too early for ref saber rattlers to be swinging....... But.......

...... Going on Eliot's first posting on this which opened up the can of worms...... If this coach said there weren't enough qualified officials to include 16 officials to do the 4 championship games (mis-information because it's 12 officials NO BACKUP OFFICIALS SCHEDULED) then it is a highly questionable and un professional statement.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. We get down to the 4 state Ship's and a referee comes out publicly to say, "ehhh not all of the 8 head coaches in the Ships are "qualified" coaches to be coaching in a state championship game." I'm sure the coaching fraternity would find that very unprofessional for a referee to say. See what I mean? A referee would never say that though. What makes it correct for a coach to say there wouldn't be enough "qualified" officials in this state to work 4 Ship games at the same time at SNHU and UNH? The referees work hard all season long to hone their craft from late November to March just like the players and coaches. For some one to say there wouldn't be enough qualified referees out of a nearly 440 person refereeing pool to cover 12 "qualified" refereeing assignments for the 4 State Ships on the same day?.......... Well, what do you think? "ill advised statement?" "unprofessional?"

I don't want to keep going on this subject, but when I see questionable comments and INCORRECT INFORMATION ( backup officials scheduled) then I have to give my opinion.

So, let's move on. Yes we know this new tournament schedule will cause conflicts for fans, reporters and broadcasters. There will be qualified officials at all playoff games from start to finish who take their refereeing assignments very very seriously.

As a friendly reminder if the referee talk this upcoming season gets inflammatory, dead horse beaten or boorish it will be taken care of by the moderators on this sight in a swift and judicious manner.

Now, let's continue the search for 13 World Series Championship material to nestle up cozily to the 07 and 04 World Series material. Smile

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:58 am

"Tuesday and Friday filled in for Pete T. On the Sat morning NH hoop show with Dave. Late January. I'm sure they where talking about how bad the officiating was state wide. That the NHIAA had addressed it for the first time. T and F gave the incidental contact class. It was a good show"

Scott Houde


Thanks for the kind words, Scott. Just to clarify though: The show was in late March and we talked about the tournament games and State Ships. Not one word was mentioned about what you perceive to be: "Bad officiating state wide." We talked about the qualified players, coaches and reporters who were all involved in the recently concluded tournament action. We did talk about how hard a ref's job is, especially when a lot of people in the stands and on the benches, don't know the rules and don't understand nuances of the game like playing through levels of incidental contact.

It was a fun show and it was great working with Pete.

Yes, let the games begin.

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Post  Guest on Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:14 pm

I stand corrected mister monitor sir..king    I agree that the officiating  concern are valid and am glad they are addressing the issue. Yes there was some misinforation about #'s But the concerns are valid and to call that DIV coach unprofessional Was a stretch.  Tones all wrong. To be corrected and to be belittle are to different thing.that's how I read your post to a credible concern.

Right wrong or indifferent.jocolor 

Obvious we all need some live action. A good yr. It will be..

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Post  sjsprague on Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:54 pm

Let's drop this subject - nobody cares.  Can someone come up with a new category.

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Post  JAF on Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:08 pm

Tryouts "technically" start in less than a month right? Basketball Basketball Basketball 

Of course the teams are probably mostly chosen, but the formality is nice!


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Post  Hooper on Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:46 pm

Post season Officials is in the eye of the beholder.

Go back to talking about teams and games.


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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:28 pm

Good way to end the officiating talk with the posts by Sj and Hooper.

This site will not be a podium to bash officials whether you are a coach, writer, broadcaster, player, parent or fan. I will never take my Forum Finger out to point at someone unless they post the first exchange. If "friendly" reminders are needed during the regular and playoff season, well then that's what the Moderators will do, if need be.

Have a great weekend !!

T & F

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:45 am

I was wrong 3 officials.  I assumed they'd have a backup in case one gets injured, my fault on that and I appreciate T&F calling me out no less then 3 times Smile

Officials is a tired argument I agree - just passing along a coaches opinion, doesn't mean its mine or even that its right.

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Post  JAF on Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:12 am

At the finals in Durham at least there's plenty of "backups", but we're all watching from the stands  Laughing Laughing 

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:30 pm

JAF wrote:At the finals in Durham at least there's plenty of "backups", but we're all watching from the stands  Laughing Laughing 
Definitely be not shortage of experts in the house...

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