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NH Sports Forum Power Poll - Page 2 Empty Re: NH Sports Forum Power Poll

Post  SofaKing on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:20 am

If a Power Poll is supposed to be a "best guess" assessment of the relative strength of the programs at the time the votes are being cast, then here's where I go:

1. Exeter: Division 1 State Champions. Home of the Gatorade Player of the Year. Defeated what, in my mind, is the clear #2 in the state twice in one season.
2. Pinkerton: Division 1 State Runner-Ups. Extremely well-coached. Deep all the way around. Lost only to Exeter, including a win over Brockton MA.
3. Winnicunnet: Yes, they beat Exeter earlier this year. But, everyone knows that "anything can happen" in a rivalry game...and if Winny played Exeter or Pinkerton now, they would not win. Period.
4. Bedford: A very strong senior class puts this fast-rising team and Division II runner-up solidly in 4th place.
5. Portsmouth: Portsmouth was the king of a "down" Division 3 this year, but overcame a ton of adversity to prevail in the D3 title game.
6. Plymouth: I'm not a huge fan of Lenahan or the Bobcats in general. But, credit must be given where credit is due: undefeated champs...
7. Keene: Another strong D2 team. Yes, they beat an adversity-faced Winny, but the loss to West is a huge set-back for them.
8. BG: Say what you want about BG...they are still a force to be reckoned with.
9. Nashua South: There was a significant drop-off in talent between Exeter, Pinkerton, and the rest of D1...but South would still beat most teams in the state.
10. Trinity: Big, powerful, and well-coached. A Turkey Bowl victory secures a spot on my list

Not receiving votes:

Central: I think Central still gets votes just because they are Central and people are still back in the early 2000's. D1 was very weak this past year, and I've seen Central play. They are not very good, and would not beat any of the teams on this list.
Souhegan: Souhegan is a better team than Central, but still wouldn't beat BG, South, or Trinity...so they can't be on this list.
Goffstown: If this was a "top 10 PLAYERS" list, Connor Benjamin would be somewhere on that list. He was the whole Grizzlies team. But, it's a "Top 10 Teams" list, so Goffstown gets omitted.

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Post  Goodguy on Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:00 pm

If Sofaking got out to see Winni this year he would be eating his words. Pinkerton won zip this year and he has them #2. Winni defeated Exeter Sofaking. You clearly need to get out to see more games.

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Post  SofaKing on Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:27 pm

Goodguy wrote:If Sofaking got out to see Winni this year he would be eating his words. Pinkerton won zip this year and he has them #2. Winni defeated Exeter Sofaking. You clearly need to get out to see more games.

No reason to be combative. This kind of response displays a complete lack of objectivity.

I saw tons of football this year, including Winni vs. Souhegan and Winni vs. Bedford in the finals. I also saw Pinkerton twice and Exeter once. I'm well aware of Winni defeating Exeter. I believe I put that in my explanation when I said that Winni beating them in an "anything can happen" rivalry game over a month ago does not automatically entitle them to being #1 or #2 in my estimation. I'm sorry, if Winni were to have played either Exeter or Pinkerton at year's end, they would not beat either team. It took every ounce of everything they had to beat Bedford, and Bedford is not nearly as good as Pinkerton or Exeter. Take nothing away from the Bulldogs...but they're not there.

So, sorry. Not eating my words any time soon.

Also, to the comment of "get out and see more games"...ummmm....I watch a game every Friday night and every Saturday afternoon. I jump over to Stellos if there's a game on Sat night going on there (or the Saturday night Sou vs. Goff game, for example). And, since I still have a number of friends in the coaching community, I get game film on DVD of tons games I'm interested in and can't see.

How many games did you see, sir?

So, Winni is tough. Great O and D line (D line in particular). Ben F. was a top running back, and the other kid was not bad either. But, they're just not as good as the D1 finalists and runners-up at this point.

Sorry if I upset you. I see by your post history that you are definitely a Winni "homer." That's all well and good, but don't try to make me look like a jackass because I'm being objective and you're not.

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:04 pm

I'll nip this one in the bud and say this "back and forth" can end right here with the personal stuff.

Sofa King, you are entitled to your opinion, but the Forum already picked Winny as the best team for 2012. I think the majority of Forum members, when they cast their Power Polls, didn't use conjecture for who would win if Winny played Exeter in the 3rd or 4th week of November. They went by the fact that Winny beat Exeter earlier in the season. We could guess all off season on who would beat who if they played in the off season. I would prefer going by who beat who when they played actual "anything can happen" rivalry games or "anything can happen" non-rivalry games in season and when they counted.

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Post  Goodguy on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:25 pm

I wasn't trying to come off as being "combative" or trying to make you look like an ass. The comment "get out to see more games" Was a tongue in cheek reference to your name......get off the sofa and get out to see more games. That was all.
Winni was the only team to beat an Exeter team that won it all in D1. Pinkerton lost twice to Exeter. How can Pinkerton be ranked higher than Winni? The win over Exeter was meaningless because it was a rivalry game? In my opinion it shows how good Winni was. Pinkerton had two shots at Exeter and lost both and one was when everything was on the line.
I guess we are looking at the power poll in different ways. Which is OK.


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NH Sports Forum Power Poll - Page 2 Empty Power Poll talk on the NH High School Football Show videocast

Post  tarrier on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:27 pm

Here's the link to the videocast of last Saturday's show which GNG referred to regarding me getting a little feisty defending my decision to vote Exeter # 1 in the final Poll. My suggestion is to click the link below and Fast Forward past the "parade talk" to the 18 minute mark where I think I made a pretty good case for WHY I voted the Blue Hawks ahead of a team that beat them in a head to head meeting earlier in the season.



http://www.nhsportspage.com/

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:39 pm

Pete: I really respect you and your opinions. You really do make a valid case for Exeter being the top team in NH. I respect the way you came to your conclusion.

I do take umbrage with the fact you said that Forum members said you and others that voted Exeter were idiots and didn't know what you were talking about. Interesting. If you can show me any posting on the Forum by a member that said you were an idiot, then please find it and post it again. I would be interested in seeing it. When a member makes a personal attack a moderator usually edits it in an expedient way.

Forum members were just making their case supported by some reasonable facts to bolster their opinions. You have the forum of a radio show to express your opinions supported by reasonable information. Forum members have this site to express their opinions supported by reasonable information. Your radio show and the Forum should both be respected for the opinions and information that is presented on a weekly basis.

My father flew 33 successful B-17 bombing missions in World War 2. He was shot down behind enemy lines once and almost lost his life. He did this so no entity would step foot on American soil and take away our rights as Americans to express ourselves and have freedom of speech. Thank God for this !!!!

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Post  tarrier on Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:59 pm

T&F, I have no issue whatsoever with you or any forum members questioning my or anybody else's opinions. That's what the forum is all about...and I'm glad it exists! When I went off on the radio the other day it was really about the fact that I, and the other poll voters had to rank these teams on a week to week basis...not just once at the end of the season like you and the other forumites did for the final Forum poll. I was just pointing out the big difference between doing 1, after the fact poll and the way I had to rank teams week to week throughout the season. My explaination was pretty simple as to WHY I ultimately voted Exeter #1...here's a recap of what I said on the radio about my season long voting process...

-Preseason poll I had Pinky 1st, Exeter 2nd and Winny wasn't even on my ballot
-After Exeter beat Pink in Week 2 I moved them up to #1 and dropped Pinky down to 2nd
-Winny rapidly shot up in the poll after opening the season impressively with a blowout of Souhegan and a road win at Bedford in the 1st 2 weeks
-When Winny beat Exeter(I think in Week 4 I moved Winny into the Top spot and Exeter down to 2nd
-Franzoso got hurt early in the 2nd half of the Exeter game and missed the next 2 weeks...Winny went on to barely win both games he missed, 31-27 over Dover(I think in OT) and 34-20 over Spaulding.
-Franzoso returned at far less than 100% for the Keene game and it showed in the 20-7 loss to Keene on Oct 12th. Stud OL Dyer was also banged up with a foot injury. He had it all taped up and was barely able to move as Keene had their way with the Warriors, especially in the 2nd half. When the new poll came the following Monday, I moved Exeter back into 1st...and dropped Winny all the way down to 5th because Winny was heading in the other direction fast and people were starting to realize that without a healthly Franzoso and a healthy offensive and defensive line they weren't good/deep enough to win the Championship or be considered the #1 team in the state.
-Franzoso went on to miss the next 2 games which Winny managed to win...the 1st was a 7-0 dogfight against an OK at best Timberlane team and the other a blowout win over a bad Merrimack team.
-Meanwhile, Exeter and Pinkerton continued to dominate and down the stretch there was talk that Pinkerton might now be the favorite in D1 and they were actually getting some #1 votes in the polls...at the same time, Bedford was also on a roll and moving up and some considered them the faves in D2. Keene had a slip up against West, but they bounced back to dominate BG in Nashua so most people looked at that as an abberation/let down game.
-Franzoso finally returned for the regular season finale against BG and he showed he was finally healthy with 2 looooooong TD runs that put Winny back in the discussion as a team to beat in Divsion 2.
-Once the title game matchups were set in D1 and D2 I had Exeter 1st, Pinky 2nd, Bedford 3rd and Winny 4th(I don't think anybody...even forum members...had Winny #1 heading into Championship Sat...)
-We all know what happened next as both Exeter and Winny won their Championships...so I moved Winny up to 2nd(from 4th the prior week)...and Exeter remained my #1.

T&F asked me to find some forum posts where people called me and fellow "Exeter is #1 voters" idiots...like I claimed some people did on the radio...I did a little scouring and I stand corrected...
no one called us "idiots", here's what I found...

Re: Who Is Number 1?
JAF on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:38 am
“While I agree Winni really should have #1 considerations - too many D1 bigots vote to make that happen.”

Re: Who Is Number 1?
JAF on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:19 am

In the Telegraph poll there was 1 vote at #1 for Winni.

Like it's been said before the polls are purely for entertainment purposes - they have no concept of reality.

Let me Guess
REDFOXFAN on Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:26 pm
Is Ball Boy a High School kid?

Repeat after me, PRESEASON SCRIMAGE.

I thought this was an Adult Site, Your Logic is running a close second with Tarrier!

JAF honestly I would watch your show before I would turn on Tarrier.


So I confused JAF's use of the word "bigots" with "idiots"...an honest mistake on my part I think...On JAF's "no concept of reality" statement about the polls, I'm not sure if he was directing that at me(I doubt he was), but I think there are definately poll voters who do get it...and definately are "qualified" to be voters. That said, I will admit that not all of the poll voters are "qualified" and only have votes because of "political" and "marketing" reasons.

REDFOXFAN seems to dislike me for some reason...which is fine. Not sure what I did to turn him/her off, but to each their own. It's too bad, because I really think if you enjoy high school football you would enjoy listening to the quality coverage we provide.

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Post  coachintheblood on Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:54 am

For what its worth, I think the local media personnel in NH does a great job covering local high school football.As far as people disagreeing with power polls that has always been the case and always will be the case.I think power polls are more for the kids they do have fun with it and it makes them feel important and it fuels street talk amongst their friends.Coaches dont pay any attention to the polls or at least they shouldnt in the world of high school football anyone can beat anyone on any given day, and the variables to a season are too numerous to count.In the end all that matters to the kids is competing and as far as who is number one at the end of the year in any given division its whoever is holding the trophy at the end of the day. I say keep up the good work on all fronts. I dont usually read these blogs but i do find this one mildly amusing and informative from time to time.Kudos to the creator and moderator who generally does a good job keeping hurtful unfounded allegations of the site.

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Post  JAF on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:51 am


Not to worry Pete - you were not amongst the group of poll voters I was thinking about. I have said it elsewhere - while I may not agree with how a voter votes, if he/she is strong enough to put their votes online and explain them, then I can respect that. There are voters out there (your former radio partner included) who will vote D1 over D2 regardless. It's not just this year either. This isn't the first year in the years of the poll's existence that D2 has been considered stronger than D1.

As for this year - I think one of your points was that PA and Exeter did exceptionally well in the second half of the season ("Meanwhile, Exeter and Pinkerton continued to dominate and down the stretch"). Sure, that's right, but consider who they played after playing each other. In past seasons when BG would run roughshod over D2 it was always pointed out that pollsters had to consider the competition; however, quite conveniently those same pollsters do not consider the competition when D1 is down and D2 is up.

I have no problem with you voting Exeter #1 - you have stated your reasons and I can respect that. The head-2-head match-up against Winni with both teams being healthy was a determining factor for me - it just cannot be ignored as they played the game straight up. I do think the voting week to week argument you make isn't very strong. I also think Exeter proved that PA was mostly a 1-trick pony this year - they limited Manny and stopped the others. Something other D1 teams, BG, and Brockton couldn't do. Brockton was without their starting QB and still made it a close game. How many NH teams could stand losing their starting QB (other than Portsmouth!!)? I still believe both Winni and Bedford had more depth than PA. Manny would have had to play defense vs. Bedford's receivers and would have had to helped shutdown Franzoso, which would have tired him a bit on offense. Considering how much O'Reilly depended upon him against Exeter goes to prove that. Take away Franzoso from Winni and they still won a majority of their games, although much closer games. If Bedford lost Caparell - they'd be hurting. An "interesting" factoid in all this is that this isn't the first time a Keene football team has been the fly in the ointment of a D2 team finishing on top of the poll... BG has had that distinction previously...

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Post  SeacoastDad on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:29 pm

The definition of “Power Poll” is in the eye of the beholder, much like the definition of “Most Valuable Player.” Some of the criteria in ranking teams would include:

Overall Record
Strength of Schedule
Common opponents
Head-to-head
Recent trends
Full-season body of work

Poll respondents will put different weight on the various criteria; it’s a matter of personal choice. It doesn’t mean one method is “right” and the other is “wrong”; it just means they’re different. The dictionary definition of a “poll” is “a sampling or collection of OPINIONS a subject, taken from either a selected or a random group of persons, as for the purpose of analysis” (emphasis mine).

In submitting my response to the Poll, I placed more weight in the current (i.e. end of year) strength of each team, and asked myself “if Team A played Team B today, who would win?” Yes, Winnacunnet did beat Exeter earlier in the season, but I believed (and still do) that if Winnacunnet and Exeter were playing each other on Championship Saturday, Exeter would narrowly win. This is how I worked my way down the top ten.

When the results were tallied, I was one of the minority that placed Exeter at the top (I think GNG was the other). While we don’t have to agree, I respect the opinions of the other voters, especially the ones that provided well thought out explanations for their rankings. The thing I like most about this forum is that it’s a place where high school (and some college) sports fans (including dads, moms, coaches, referees, media, etc.) can hang out and talk sports in a mature and respectful manner. The moderators do a good job of keeping it that way, and I thank them for that.

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