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Post  GNG on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:00 am

I predicted at the start of the season BG would NOT make the playoffs. People laughed at me. I was wrong , I thought Dover would be top 4. What I was not wrong about is how far and how fast this program has regressed. No

Alumni from BG used to open up their wallets, because they were proud of the football program. Not much to be proud of these days. No

If I said it once on this forum I said it a thousand times. Coaching matters BIG time. Last year Cote was driving TOJO'S car. This year he is driving his own car, and it looks like he is driving it straight into a tree. No

Speaking of BAD coaches, read the Telegraph today. The Merrimack coach was beaming how well his defense played against Bedford. 33-8 Bedford. No

Now that coach has driven his car off a cliff. No

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Post  JAF on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:02 am

GNG wrote:
If I said it once on this forum I said it a thousand times. Coaching matters BIG time. Last year Cote was driving TOJO'S car. This year he is driving his own car, and it looks like he is driving it straight into a tree. No

Actually the throttle is stuck and the carburetor is clogged full of gunk - it won't reach the tree. That's what happens when you try to put a Yugo engine in the BMW.

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:40 am

Maybe, the whining, complaining and high maintenance parents who wanted ToJo gone like driving around in a smaller no frills car instead of a plush luxurious model. Trouble is that smaller no frills car will be uncomfortable come playoff time and will be absolutely painful on their Division 1 roads next season.

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Post  JAF on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:46 am


Don't forget who shopped for the car... Then ask yourself was he sold a lemon or was it an intentional choice?

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When the walls come tumbling down. Empty Are you suggesting a conspiracy theory?

Post  GNG on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:14 am

That was the first thing that crossed my mind when he was hired, but it backfired when he won the ship last year.

There are more poor hs football coaches in NH football then any other sport. There is a handful of great coaches, another couple handfuls of good coaches, and a whole bunch of handfuls of coaches who are mediocre at best.

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:20 am

Read my post on the other thread looking for answers to comparative losses in BG football under different regimes. If you 2 BG football fathers could come up with some answers I would be very interested in them.

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Post  JAF on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:25 am


Let's face it - last year the difference is/was the depth of the team and the caliber of the competition in D2. There was a bit of engine swapping last year with a mix of option and wing-t. This year as many have pointed out - the lack of depth really hurts especially in a very competitive D2.

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Post  E.I.R. on Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:30 pm

I don't think it's really that hard to sell the "conspiracy theory" GNG. Cote had an abysmal record at West--I forget exactly what, but suffice it to say it was well under .500 and not very good at all. People made the claim that it was because of Bedford opening, but even before BHS opened he had a record right around the .500 mark. I think Johnson knew he would get a championship last year (while he was still AD, the whole scenario was still fresh, and people would, rightly, give him a fair share of the credit for the talent on the team). Now, he's left the school and it's all on Cote's shoulders when the team fails, and I think Johnson could pretty easily see this coming.
What baffles me--whether you were pro-Tojo or not--is why you would let him pick his successor when he so clearly didn't want to give up the job in the first place? I don't know if it's just the Catholic feelings over there that made people think he'd forgive and forget and think in the best interest of the program post-Tojo, but to me it seems incredibly short-sighted to let a disgruntled employee make the decision on who will replace him.

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Post  REDFOXFAN on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:16 pm

Take it easy fellas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now the word was there were only three aplicants for the BG job
when TOJO and board members were interviewing candidates. Has anyone herd different when that
process was going on? Question

I do beleive TOJO made the best choice out of the three candidates. Who the hell would have wanted
it as it was a no win situation. I only know the name of one other candidate and did not have all the credentials
that BR Mark wanted.

EIR I don`t agree with your assessment of Cote at West as I have close friends who had kids
on that team and went on to play college ball believe it of not. I think you are making off the cuff
statements with no substance. Does not make you a bad guy as I can hear your frustration. Sad

JAF I do agree that Winne with their stud horse back would be the best bet to win D2. That is the
perfect time to have had that kid come back. They are all jacked up. I will bet Winne Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Post  rwvogeley on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:33 pm

Any time that a team wins a championship you can usually see one or two players that re head and shoulders above everyone else. Whether it was Andy Vailis running and cutting back on broken plays, Mike Kelly running back punts for three tds in the first quarter, or steve Cuipa putting the team on his back and runniing for crucial first downs in the c-ship game.
These players stood out on the D 2 level over the past few years. This years BG players do not have the size, speed or strength of the teams in the past. As JAF sstated, other teams in D2 have gotten better. Several players also left when Coach Johnson left. This further depleted a limited talent pool. You can blame Coach Cote for trying to bring in a new system. Maybe yes, maybe no.
I really think it is reality knocking on the front door and there appears to obe some new big dogs in the D2 kennel. They still have the playoffs to prove different..

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Post  REDFOXFAN on Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:11 am

RW well said,

they have some athletes but none are superstars. Regarding Cote at West you can`t make
Chicken salad out of Chicken S_ _ T.

Cote is not the problem at BG but his down side will be he will not attract the athletes
that TOJO would. Shocked

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Post  JAF on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:04 pm


rwvogeley wrote: . Several players also left when Coach Johnson left. This further depleted a limited talent pool. You can blame Coach Cote for trying to bring in a new system. Maybe yes, maybe no.
I really think it is reality knocking on the front door and there appears to obe some new big dogs in the D2 kennel. They still have the playoffs to prove different..

Of the current seniors that were on the rosters as Sophs/JR's over the last couple of years - there's perhaps 5 players (Cavalier, Crane, Lansing, Vailas*2) that I think could have made a difference. Of those I believe Crane was already on his way to prep school prior to the Tojo change. But I don't think the difference would have been enough to overcome Bedford/Winni this year. Perhaps there's someone else you're thinking about that I'm missing?? I can think of one player that left prior to this year, but I don't think he was going to start anyway (a 2014 graduate).

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:04 pm

Are we still talking about ToJo? Still?

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When the walls come tumbling down. Empty Eliot Bless me father for I have sinned

Post  GNG on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:55 pm

As Dave Hester{ storage wars] would say "YEP".

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Post  JAF on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:06 pm

Isn't that 'YUUUP!' Rolling Eyes


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When the walls come tumbling down. Empty I stand corrected.

Post  GNG on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:09 pm

JAF- 1ST coaching casuality the Alvirne football coach. I have a feeling there will be more to follow.

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Post  JAF on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:51 pm


According to the local weekly paper we get Alvirne administrators had set up some sort of an "airing of the issues" meeting at the conclusion of the football season between the football parents and coaches... Looks like that won't happen. This paper has a weekly anonymous thumbs up/thumbs down column which suffice to say has a weekly bashing and support of the football coaches....

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Post  JustinMcIsaac on Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:56 pm

EBlessNHSP wrote:Are we still talking about ToJo? Still?

Imagine if TOJO had coached Milford Basketball? affraid

/Head asplode

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When the walls come tumbling down. Empty Alvirne Coach

Post  REDFOXFAN on Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:58 pm

Question to anyone

Is Alverine moving up next year to the D1 Super division with everyone else?

I herd West is and if Alv is too then where is the logic?

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Post  Crossover on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:09 pm

REDFOXFAN wrote:Question to anyone

Is Alverine moving up next year to the D1 Super division with everyone else?

I herd West is and if Alv is too then where is the logic?

Yes Alvirne will be in D1 next year. In a conference with Nashua North, Nashua South, BG and Keene ( I believe).

Where is the logic?.....NHIAA and Logic??....aint happening

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Post  JAF on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:27 pm


It's not really a super division... See the following from Roger Brown:

http://www.nhfootballreport.com/2012/07/nhiaa_football_will_have_new_l_1.html

Logic is school size dictates placement. Schools can petition up/down, but I think only the "ups" were granted in the new format (eg, BG probably saves a school like Portsmouth who is probably close to the size boundary).

There are a couple of placements that are head scratchers.. In the new D1, Merrimack is South and Alvirne is West... Oh and just to confuse you, West is North and North is South with South in the West along with BG & Keene. In the new D3 - Somersworth is in the South, while Epping/Newmarket & Raymond are in the inappropriately named "West". West of what the ocean? or Somersworth?

The only "good" news is the whole thing gets revisited after the season is over because a new 2 year cycle starts in Fall 2014. The undercurrent from some writers seems to believe that eventually there will be 4 Divisions. Whether that alignment allows out of division games (eg, Brockton/Pinkerton) is yet to be seen.

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Post  REDFOXFAN on Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:18 pm


Thanks for the Brown info. Very Happy

I love this new format and I think however, West and Alvirne should not be part of that
new D1 division.. Maybe even Merrimack needs a breather for at least a year.

Placing Alvirne and West back in a larger Division D1 is rediculous!! You can not
build a program in divisions that you really can not compete in.

3 large Divisions is perfect size for the State.

JAF.........as you know school size is the guide line but that starting point has about a
80% accuracy in all sports. Its that remaining 20% that needs looking at as it really hurts
the kids not to mention makes it so difficult to ever compete and build a program for
a coach. Portsmouth Baseball is another issue the NHHIA needs to look at since you
brought Portsmouth up.They better then most D1 programs. And they say TOJO has a big ego. Very Happy Very Happy

Trinity Football is the best example of that as well as BG Girls Lacrosse. Trinity Football
stoped their program for I think two years and started with a independant scheduel to D6,D5,
etc... and now they are competing and have kids out for that program and are excited about
playing football.

I will say this is the first time in years the NHHIA has done anything so maybe this will
be the start of something good.

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When the walls come tumbling down. Empty Logic is school size dictates placement

Post  Crossover on Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:52 pm

Student Enrollment

Nashua South: 2112 (684 more students than Alvirne)
Nashua North 1966 (538 more students than Alvirne)
Keene: 1637 (209 more students than Alvirne)
Alvirne: 1428
BG: 878 ( BG petitioned up and draws from all of Southern NH and parts of Mass)

Then you have schools like Portsmouth and Milford who are both in D2 that have a student enrollment betwwen 1050-1100. Milford beat Alvirne 35-7 and Portsmouth beat Alvirne 35-0.

Bottom line is the only criteria cannot be student enrollment.

Good luck to the next HC of the Alvirne Broncos.

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Post  JAF on Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:23 pm

I agree that size should be a factor or starting point, but after that some amount of human reasoning needs to take place. The problem comes with the arguments that ensue. When the 2013 format was announced Winna coach Auffant complained how could his size school compete in D1... Then he goes and beats Exeter. Coach Ball after the game was quoted somewhere as saying that Auffant cannot complain now... So that shows you cannot necessarily trust the coaches. Not every coach has the approach Tojo or O'Reilly has in trying to schedule the best opponent in your open slot.

I think the 3 Divisions are "on track"... I also think the "super division" is the good concept too. That is - D1 is made up of the top 12-16 programs in the state regardless of size. If that makes D2 a bit larger, so what? The problem is "how" do you determine that? As BG's proved this year - you cannot look solely at the track record. Two years ago Lebanon was pretty good, where are they now? Laconia and Kennett are usually fairly solid, but not this year. Conversely you have Alvirne and West that just cannot compete at D1 now, but like Trinity might be able to compete if they are allowed to rebuild.

The problem with petitioning down has always been that the committee wants to replace that team. I say don't do it. I also say, if you petition down, then you forfeit the right to make the playoffs. Plain and simple. There's 2 reasons I see to petition down - first is to rebuild your program and second is to be a championship contender. There are too many that will use the first excuse knowing full well their Frosh/JV program are very good. So to avoid the sandbaggers of the world, just cut them off. Yes, you can go down, but no you cannot make playoffs. I think that will make programs think twice about going down.

Another flaw in the sized based plan is a program like Plymouth. I think there are many in the state that would really like to see them play against D1 teams. I certainly can "buy" the I want to play traditional foes argument that Lenahan makes (eg, Laconia & Kennett), but one has to wonder whether he would like to be able to let his boys compare themselves against the larger schools. I think that would only be natural for a successful football coach. How can you tell your boys you're just as good as "XYZ", but yet you don't give them the opportunity to prove it. scratch

As for Portsmouth baseball (and Goffstown, too) - that's a different discussion for a different forum, but suffice to say I agree in principle with you. It's funny, I generally attribute Campbell's success to the fact that in all youth sports they compete they have to go against larger towns that surround Litchfield, so when they finally start competing against "alike" sized towns they have built up more depth and experience.

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Post  REDFOXFAN on Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:50 pm

I could not agree more regarding move down and you can`t compete for the division
for a couple of years and then see where the program belongs.

Most programs are up and down,how about exeter 2 years ago. If you or myself were running
the NHIAA are you telling me we wouldn`t know the coaches who fabricate where their programs
are. I think most coaches if you get them one on one or better yet face to face are reasonable
people. With regards to traditions that ship has sailed, and thats what Thanksgiving day games
in NH could be for. Play whoever you want then as everyone should play on Thanksgiving for the
love of the game.Alumni come back from College and reconnect. Who cares if the games are meaningless
the kids will play for pride.

I just read the Roger Brown interview with the Bronco`s Coach. Can`t get kids to the weight
room,kids are not playing multiple sports,lack of interest, 3-7 in D3 and the NHHIA wants them in D1 next year. OH that should work!!!

Another Solid thought process from our friends at the NHIAA Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

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