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Post  REDFOXFAN on Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:04 pm

I did not mean to get off topic. What I meant was I can feel the frustration of
the Central folks with regards to Ryan Ray. The program was not what it was
under Jim Schubert just as the BG program will not be as strong without Johnson.

However lets not forget that the Brother Mark survey to the BG Parents was just as much
to the TOJO demise as to the woman in question. Many Parents through him under the
bus and............ you know who you are. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Regarding Plymouth/Dover...............I do not feel that Dover should be in the top 10.
My point was Plymouth is not deserving of it. Kevin Gray pressures his friends to vote
for them and this has been confirmed to me by Marc Thalyer. Gray is a Plymouth Allum.
They have had chances to move up and they do not..........they move down.

They play no one and even turn down pre season oppertunites to challenge themselves.


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Post  HS FB Fan 11 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:42 pm

REDFOXFAN wrote:I did not mean to get off topic. What I meant was I can feel the frustration of
the Central folks with regards to Ryan Ray. The program was not what it was
under Jim Schubert just as the BG program will not be as strong without Johnson.

However lets not forget that the Brother Mark survey to the BG Parents was just as much
to the TOJO demise as to the woman in question. Many Parents through him under the
bus and............ you know who you are. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Regarding Plymouth/Dover...............I do not feel that Dover should be in the top 10.
My point was Plymouth is not deserving of it. Kevin Gray pressures his friends to vote
for them and this has been confirmed to me by Marc Thalyer. Gray is a Plymouth Allum.
They have had chances to move up and they do not..........they move down.

They play no one and even turn down pre season oppertunites to challenge themselves.

Redfoxfan, do you believe there was a "Brother Mark survey of BG Parents"? If there was, how did I, as a BG football Parent, not hear anything about this? I certainly was not surveyed, and I never heard any other parents say anything about it. I guess it is a blog, so you can say anything you want but ...

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Post  GNG on Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:13 pm

Yes there was a survey in 2011. My son was a senior.

Now you are hearing from a parent who got it.

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Post  JAF on Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:13 pm

There was a survey. I believe it came in a mass emailing from Br. Mark at some point in Spring 2011 and people were free to respond. Not sure if it was only a "chosen group" or not - I don't think so b/c I know other families that got one and they aren't football people... Similar emails were sent for other administrators as well.

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Post  REDFOXFAN on Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:18 pm

FB Fan 11...............................I was a BG FB Parent. In the Spring/April of 2010 Brother Mark sent out
a survey to all of the BG parents via email surveying the AD and had about 10 questions or so on it.

Their were alot of parents who were not kind and one or two that are regulars on this site.

If you did not get it maybe because your son was a under classmen? I have no idea but all upper
classmen. male and female got it regardless of what sport. This again was a evaluation of TOJO
as the AD and not a Football coach. I received two........one at home and one work.

PM me if you want to disscuss this futher and I can set you straight. My guess is your son must have
been new to Guertin???

I would rather move on as I said I thought we all had enough of this. I was using it as a example
of how important a head coach is to a entire program.

I have seen Bg play twice this year..............the lack of fire in the belley by the whole team and BG community is sad
and I wish your son had a chance to play for Tony.

However get your facts straight before you call me out.

Hey GNG help me out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Post  GNG on Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:31 pm

I love your analogy of Shubert to Tojo except BG won one last year. Did BG win or Dover lose it? How wide open was that receiver?

It will be a long time before BG wins another title in football.

By the time they move to division one next year they will be a shell of what was once a high school sports machine.

Many BG detracters will say "BG can't compete with the big boys".

When I read in the paper the other day that the BG coach said his players were gassed in the second half against Bedford it made me shake my head.

Once the best conditioned team in the state to gassed in two short seasons. pale


Last edited by GNG on Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : i before e except after c)

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Post  rwvogeley on Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:01 pm

Remdog
I think BG is now where every other team is in football. Several years ago BG had depth and only a few plyers played both ways. You saw this mainly in the D 1 games. Now because BG has 49 players in the program and not the usual 100 their better players ..Marino, Boudreau have to play both ways.
Next year could be a long season when they play with the other better teams in D 1.

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:21 pm

Gee, we're getting off topic, as Jaf said earlier today, but since we're off topic......

.....If you lined up pro ToJo people on one side of the fence and ToJo detractors on the other side of the fence..... Well, the detractors would overwhelmingly be dwarfed by the ToJo supporters. That's good enough for me. Was ToJo perfect during his coaching stint at BG? No, because he's human. Did he step on some player's toes? No question. As a coach you have to in order to be successful like he was. He ran a successful, organized and disciplined football program.

What is so rich about the few detractors of ToJo during his tenure is that he won what, 6 titles in 9 years or 7 in 10 years? And you STILL have players/parents with personal vendetta axes to grind. Can you imagine how many axes are grinded in football programs that meander along just north or south of the .500 mark and hardly ever get a whiff of even a championship game experience?

As far as a real life lesson, what are parents teaching their children when they complain to a coach, AD or principal incessantly about Johnny? These parents will not be preparing Johnny for the real world when he gets a real job. I don't think daddy or mommy will call up Johnny's boss to complain about how Johnny is treated at his job. That won't wash.

What a rude awakening the future will hold for Johnny.

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Post  tarrier on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:08 pm

In my opinion this year's Plymouth would beat this year's Dover head to head...and I think it would be by a comfortable margin. Of course what I think doesn't mean much, but it sure is fun talking about these things!

On me calling the WGAM/Telegraph poll a "mock poll"...it didn't happen no matter what you think you heard GNG. And trust me, I'm well aware what the name of Jeremy's site is. Jeremy would even back me up on this. When I said "whatever the site is called" it was because I stumbled while I was trying to say NHNotebook.com and I made that statement to make fun of myself for screwing up, not to bash Jeremy.

Here's some more fodder for you guys...my weekly Union Leader/WGIR/WMUR Power Poll Ballot.
1.Winn...big test @ Keene on Fri. I will be there with video coverage on NHSportspage.com
2.Exeter...hosting a Nashua South team that seems to have righted the ship
3.Pink...Playing their best football of the year right now and hoping for another crack at Exeter in Nov
4.Bedford...see Pink, but insert Winnacunnet where Exeter is.
5.Keene...can they knock the Warriors out of the top spot? Can't wait to find out!
6.Nashua South...BIG win @ Central last week. Now let's see if they can stay close with Exeter
7.Central...like the Patriots, they must re-establish the run to balance a pass happy offense
8.BG...I still think Central is better right now. Boykin and Bilodeau returns will help a lot.
9.Concord...going with the Tide here because I think they are the best of the rest
10.Plymouth...apologies to Souhegan and Portsmouth, but I think the Bobcats are better this year.
That said, they need to stay undefeated to stay on my ballot.


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Post  JAF on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:37 am


Great weekend of football coming up

Winni vs. Keene - Is everyone healthy? Loupa head cleared and Franzoso hammy better yet?
Exeter vs. South - Can South build on the momentum or was it a 1-week wonder type thing vs. the overrated team from Manchester
Pink vs. Brockton - How will they fare vs. the big boys?
Bedford vs. Dover - Can Dover win just one of these big games???
Central vs. Londonderry - What happens vs. another weak team that just likes to push the ball at your line?
BG vs. Timby - Does Bilodeau really lose his starting qb job b/c of injury?

As for the other thing - I really couldn't remember Spring '10 or Spring '11 - perhaps both - could be an annual thing. I do believe T&F hits the nail squarely on the head in his analysis though. I would like to see the two sides play a game of dodge ball though Razz. It's also interesting that there's very few (if any) people in the middle - that is you are either an ardent supporter or a (mostly) silent detractor. I don't think anyone can question his results - between Spring Track and Football - Championships were aplenty, athletes getting into colleges w/ most getting some sort of scholarship (athletic and/or academic), and participation in his sports was outstanding. I have to assume some detractors came from other "competing" sports that weren't so successful and felt that their lack of success was in some way influenced by the AD. Those directly affected in his sports could have issues with lack of play time or seeing an "underclassman" jump over their child in the depth chart. The problem with surveys is how many are filled out by people that are happy? If you're happy with a situation and think things are fine, you might be apt to just dismiss the survey because you feel it's a perfunctory annual "thing". If you're unhappy with a situation, then this is the opportunity to unload, anonymously.

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Post  HS FB Fan 11 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:08 am

I've PM'd Redfoxfan. My apologies to him. My son played in 2009, 2010 and 2011. We never saw it; My son says he finds it hard to believe; He never heard it mentioned.

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Post  E.I.R. on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:44 pm

GNG - my son hasn't played at BG in a LONG time (if you want to confirm that you can look at posts I made last season). The Boykin rumor was something I heard people saying at the game that week. Unless I missed him, he didn't even end up playing against Bedford?
As for the conditioning, I agree with some of the other posters on here. While BG may not be as well-conditioned as in years past, the real reason they were gassed against Bedford is the number of 2 way players. Everyone brings up Kiczuk, Boudreau, and Marino when they mention the two way players, but how about the ENTIRE defensive line? Bury and Adie, the two DE I've seen playing most games are both the starting TE as well, and the other DE I saw against Bedford was Cadoret, the starting RG. Then you have Karlson and Yourell in the middle, who play LG and LT respectively, and the backup for them at DL was Flathers, who was playing RT.
Compare that to the '09 Tojo team. Two way players were Flynn at RG and DT, but he got replaced Carver on defense; Rhodes at TE and DE, but he had a player come off the bench to relieve him when he needed to; Phillips at FB and LB, who split time with a stable of FB, and also had Kemos to backup at LB when he got gassed. That, and that team never played past halftime, whereas this year's two way players are having to go all 48 minutes. As I said, they may not be as well conditioned as under Tojo, but the reason they were that gassed against Bedford had much more to do with depth than being out of shape.

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Post  GNG on Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:03 am

The only problem BG had with depth issues when TOJO was there was they had too much of it..

Now they have none.

Hope you BG people that wanted him gone are happy.


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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:22 am

For the last year and a half I've been told about this player or that player that has transferred from BG because of the ToJo situation. The name VAILAS comes to mind. Also, I've been told about parents who decided NOT to send their 7th/8th grade student~football players to BG because of the ToJo situation. What is now happening at BG is what I figured would happen in a year or two with lack of depth and quality football. It seems the erosion of this program has been accelerated. With moving to D1 next year it will be further accelerated.

It looks like you reap what you sow.

This is what happens when the roosters rule the hen house...... To quote a loud and boisterous mother at Keene home basketball games.

affraid bounce affraid bounce

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Post  JAF on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:35 am


The argument used to be BG recruited football players from MA, but the revisionist history is that there were mostly NH players that chose to go to BG because of the coach with connections that will help get them to college. A large percentage in "recent years" were from Bedford, Merrimack, and Amherst. While some may say it was recruiting, it seems in hindsight it was being attracted to a coach. Word of mouth amongst parents, youth football coaches, etc. knew that ToJo was *the* coach with whom to be associated. I would say Bedford has benefited the most as there is a larger percentage of families there that were able to afford BG and their option used to be West. To me that's a no brainer - BG/Trinity or West? If you have football aspirations, then go to BG. If you have basketball aspirations, then go to Trinity. With BHS in place now and no ToJo alternative for "cheap" money of a BG education ($12K) vs. the expense of a Worcestor Academy ($29K/Day or $51K/Boarding) - it's again a no brainer for the football families. Bedford's picked up about 15-20 players in the last couple of years, right? (It's a guess).

Anyway, if BG now has 50-ish players and used to have 90-ish before - do the math on your own to decide what percentage of families decided going to BG was primarily for football. You may need to throw in a "few" players that decided to not go out for football once ToJo left, but are still students at BG. Also out of the 90-ish players - you'll need to account for those that never saw the field for real game action. I think BG loses perhaps 8-10 players per class without ToJo. Of those perhaps 3-5 were "football players" and 5-7 were "playing football" (there is a difference). If you have/need 22 solid players and lose 5 JR and 5 SR football players, then you have to rely on the remaining players more or hope one of those playing football players is a hidden gem.

In the end, whether one agrees with it or not BG's administration made a decision to focus more on education and the result is what we have now and will face going forward. Using today's classifications, BG possibly goes from a D2 power with the ability to compete at D1 to a D4 power with the ability to compete at D3. If your primary focus is to play football, then BG is not your destination anymore. As for the education side - the question is - are there less students per class now? Between the economy and the football situation, I would assume so, but I don't have any empirical data to (dis)prove.


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Post  REDFOXFAN on Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:39 pm

EIR/GNG/Moderator/JAF

All of you made great and solid points.

I do think in all fairness, even if TOJO stayed he would get some drop off with the economy situation.
These Bedford people have a monster tax bill on those homes and now throw in a 12 k BG tab a year and its
hard to swollow even if you have money. Not to many people are earning what they were earning just 3-4 years ago.

Bedford has been up and running now for 5 years and the reality is people think that their kids are getting a solid
education at Bedford. BG`s numbers will continue to decline from Bedford and athletically Bedford will be a D1 power
in all sports for many years to come. TOJO would have minimized that no question about it. I wonder how long
it will take Cameron the lacrosse coach to jump ship. Bedford Lacrosse is very good and the town is loaded
with youth teams. How do you think BG Football would be now if they lost the Bedford Lacrosse players that they
have on their roster. How much better now would they be with 3 Vailases that have gone else where.

I have been told that the student population with BG is not good and the current class of 2013 is 60 or more
students short. The freshmen class I think hit their number but again is it easier now to get into BG than it was 4-5
years ago? Brother Mark has no Athletic vision but more importantly what he does not understand is for 12K a year
people want academics and athletics. 4 more years of OBAMA and this school will be in dire straits. 18 years ago
when TOJO took over that Football Team was not even on the map!!!

Brother Mark and the parents who through TOJO under the bus??? Do you feel good about what you have done???

Take a good long look in the mirror.

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Post  E.I.R. on Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:08 pm

Well the other thing to keep in mind is that '09 team (the one with 80-90 or so players) had close to 40 seniors on it. In your typical year that doesn't happen, Tojo or no. Look at the year after that (the Cuipa-Kelly year) where there were maybe 10-15 seniors on the team and Johnson was still the coach. I think Tojo or no you would have seen a dropoff in the number of players, and those that left BG/BG football with Tojo realistically probably only number around 10-15 (3 Vailases, Crane, Eaton from last year's class, and a few of the kids from this year). Every team eventually reaches a bit of a "rebuilding" year, and I think it just so happens that BG reached it right around the same time as Johnson leaving.

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Post  GNG on Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:26 pm

You can try sellin that EIR, but I ain't buyin it.

TOJO would scour the classes and get kids to play.

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Post  JAF on Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:00 pm

GNG/EIR - I think you're both right.

My oldest son's frosh year - 25-30 players on Frosh team... By the time they're Varsity - 13 players and we didn't start with Vailas at QB (we also didn't win a game as frosh)
The year after - 50 players on the Frosh team... That was the '09 team that had 35-40 by varsity (I was told this was the largest group they ever had)
The year after - 35-40 on the Frosh team... That's GNG's son's year - I think we finished with about 20 by varsity
I think the 30-35 number for Frosh was consistent - even with my youngest (who gave it up due to concussions and yes, because Tojo wasn't there).

I believe last year the Frosh numbers were very low and there are 17 sophomores on the roster this fall. There are 25 frosh this fall.

So each year there is attrition from frosh to senior year, you pick up some, you lose some. To me it seems they're still down 5-10 from the normal starting out. The problem being is it "the right 5-10"? What Tojo could do though is make sure if you fit a "look" that you came out for football. Or if he had a need he would as GNG says scour the classrooms, teams, players, etc. looking to get someone to play football (Joe McCarthy comes to mind). If he needed a kicker/punter - go watch some soccer practices/games and find someone that could boot the ball (field fairies was the term used affectionately). When my oldest was at the "this is your school next year" day - I remember Tojo seeking him out and making sure he came out for football. My oldest was a big for an incoming frosh - Tojo knew by the time he was a senior that he'd make him bigger, faster, stronger... That part of the program is something Cote cannot easily replicate while teaching at West.

Another data point - those years with the larger numbers - we had a *lot more* bloggers and activity (both here and other sites). Maybe there's a correlation to that Idea Exclamation


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Post  REDFOXFAN on Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:25 pm

JAF....................when I said 2013 they were 60 or more short I meant the class of 2013 ,I did not mean the football team.
That is a fact told to me by a guidance councelor.Guertins enrolement is down.

2009 there were 120 plus kids playing football................all time high for the program.

Also the 2009 team was exception at BG not the norm..........................that team was stacked!!!!
The Junior class could have competed with any team in NH that year even with out the juniors who
played varsity that year.

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Post  JAF on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:20 am


w/r/t class of 2013 - Wow - I knew "some" kids left, but that's a lot of seniors. Not all were football related though. I had heard that not all the classes were full, but I don't have the numbers of expectation vs. reality.

As it relates to football, it makes sense as there's only 12 players on the roster from 2013, down 1 from the prior year (I think 2-3 left and 1-2 decided to play). There were 17 from that class on the last Tojo team and none would have been rostered on the Fall 09 team...

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