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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:50 pm

OK my friend. I'm going to compare quotes you had about 2 big games that were played within 24 hours of each other. The first is the BG - Londonderry girl's final. The second is quotes from the Spaulding - North quarterfinal game.


BG- Londonderry:
"On thing is for sure - the officials called this game WAY too tightly. There was WAY too many ticky tack fouls, on both sides. I don't know if the solution is getting rid of 3 man officiating crews or maybe just telling these refs to LET THEM PLAY, but something has to give. It could have been a GREAT game though if the refs could have LET THEM PLAY."


Spaulding - North:

"the game was turning into more of a wrestling/hockey/football game than basketball. It was getting out of hand and I was really getting concerned for the safety of the kids on the court. While the refs did wait too long before blowing the whistle at least they called a technical because they ahd to do something to get the game under control. A key point in the 2nd half came when the game really started to get physical, and both teams were flat out decking each other out there. Finally the officials blew the whistle to try and take control of the game"


Jeremy, my friend, I'm presuming you're looking for a happy medium? Wink Wink Basketball Wink Basketball

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Post  FOXY LADY on Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:02 pm

T & F Thank you for the new thread.... I normally like to read everyone comments and not write anything,( unless of course it is chance win a lunch date with that wealth of knowledge GNG) Very Happy Very Happy .

However, today reading the blog I was noticing the same thing with Jeremy comments. "LET THEM PLAY" to "THE REFS WAIT TO LONG TO TAKE CONTROL"

I am a little confused..

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Post  NHhoops on Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:16 pm

T & F, the fact of the matter is that NH refs have a double standard when it comes to girls' vs. boys' games. With the girls, they typically call games way too tight and will call fouls based on the most incidental of contact. I think it's a borderline sexist mentality in that they feel girls shouldn't be as physical as boys. I agree with Jeremy that the Londonderry/BG game was called way too tight, and they should have "let 'em play" a little more. These girls are pretty tough cookies and they shouldn't be pampered by the refs, compared to their male counterparts. Let them body up a little bit, fight for position on box-outs, use their "arm bar" to keep their opponent from coming through the lane to receive an entry pass.

The refs tend to call boys' games a little looser. I wasn't at the North-Spaulding game but by all accounts the refs let things get out of control. I think Jeremy has all the right in the world to report on that. Now T & F I know you always get defensive whenever anyone on this forum questions referees (because you are one yourself), but I think forumites have the right to question referees here just as much as they might question the performance of a player or a coach. Why should referees be out-of-bounds on a basketball forum?

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Post  GNG on Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:59 pm


I am not a fan of the 3 man crew come playoff time. Never was, never will be.

If 2 ref's are good enough for the regular season they should be good enough for the playoffs.


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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:11 pm

Before all you Referee Rabble Rousers start piling on..... Please remember this is a good natured friendly call out to Jeremy who in the span of 24 hours went from saying:

"LET THEM PLAY"

to

"concerned for the safety of the kids on the court"

Jeremy is the best!!!!!


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Post  JAF on Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:44 pm

Interesting about the Lond/BG game - I was there and there were at least two "non calls" made on heavy fouls to a BG player. Now that player is BG's big player so perhaps the thought was she can handle it Laughing ... On the other hand, I do agree perhaps a few of the "outside" fouls went against game flow and could be considered "ticky-tack", but overall I thought things were called relatively consistently. If you know that's being called, then you adjust. That's what coaches want - consistency - it's what they tell us every year at the coaches/referee meeting for Board 117 (the Manch/Nashua group). This year the Bedford coach told us what others are saying here - let the girls bang a bit more...

As for 3 vs 2 man - it doesn't matter to me. I don't like it "just" for playoffs, but I know why it's done. I do agree with "a" sentiment that the crews should come from the same region and should have worked together as 3-man before or at least 2 of them. It's not easy especially in the don't call in your partners area department. The reason for the same region is that it's well known that certain regions (like Manch/Nashua) allow much more physical play than others. Right or wrong, I'm not answering that. But if you have a republican, a democrat, and a libertarian refereeing the game - things are not going to be consistent. Regardless of anyone's training the perception of what is and isn't a foul and the degree to what you allow to happen is more difficult when 3 different styles are on the court.

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Post  nhhoopsguy on Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:55 pm

GNG wrote:
I am not a fan of the 3 man crew come playoff time. Never was, never will be.

If 2 ref's are good enough for the regular season they should be good enough for the playoffs.

I have to agree!
Somethings aren't called all season because you have two refs.
Then with a third ref in mix, he /she may see a totally diff view!

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Post  Jeremy Leveille on Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:23 pm

Well yeah, they were 2 different games, 2 different animals. And yes they definitely officiate the girls game much tighter and allow much less contact than the boys games, which is too bad.

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Post  JustinMcIsaac on Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:09 pm

I've seen girls games that have been knock down drag out fist fights with no whistles being blown. I've seen boys games where breathing on a kid gets a foul called.

I think it depends less on the gender of the players, and more on how each individual ref calls it. Without naming names, I can tell when I see certain refs come out how the game will play out.

In some instances, I've had girls players tell me that the refs will tell them at the captains meeting at half court "We're going to let you play, but keep it within reason".

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Post  nhhoopsguy on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:46 am

JustinMcIsaac wrote:I've seen girls games that have been knock down drag out fist fights with no whistles being blown. I've seen boys games where breathing on a kid gets a foul called.

I think it depends less on the gender of the players, and more on how each individual ref calls it. Without naming names, I can tell when I see certain refs come out how the game will play out.

In some instances, I've had girls players tell me that the refs will tell them at the captains meeting at half court "We're going to let you play, but keep it within reason".
I think when a coach/player sees who the refs are for that game, they know what they can expect to be called.
When I see certain refs, I can almost predict what calls they will be making during game, travels,offensive charges etc..

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Post  goldenbear on Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:02 pm

But by tacking control of the North Spaulding game they tool momentum away from North,

it was just a bad situation by calling game one way for 28 minutes and then changing the way they called it because they game was getting mucked up.

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Post  8992 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:13 pm

New Hampshire high school basketball officiating = inconsistency

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Post  JAF on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:01 pm

I think you can say that about "other" states as well as collegiate and professional level, even though last years biggest detractor would like have us believe otherwise Rolling Eyes

If the teams played the game the same way and/or the players were taught the same way, perhaps it'd be easier to be consistent. What some coaches "teach" astounds me sometimes. As a coach it drove me crazy to see some defender trying to jump into my players uniform - it wasn't just one player on the team, so I had a feeling it was taught. Of course, this starts getting into off topic areas, so I'll stop here...

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:07 pm

Amen Jaf

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:12 pm

Alaska HS basketball officiating = Inconsistency etc. etc. etc.

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:14 pm

Same thing could be said about any sport...its a tiring argument and discussion. One that's been had many times...if you have to...please take it to the bleachers.

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Post  Tuesday and Friday on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:22 pm

Well said and amen Assistant.

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Post  8992 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:25 pm

amen

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Post  goldenbear on Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:13 pm

I think it is fun discussion but I wont carry on here if I am not to,

and relevant as well

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Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:33 pm

Its a slippery slope goldenbear. Pretty soon all threads get inundated with ref talk. LIke I said, it's tiresome and not what th game is about.

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