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Bloggers are people too.

Post  GNG on Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:57 am

I heard this yesterday on Pete's radio show, and it's been sticking in my craw.

Marc Thaler dismissing bloggers, I don't have the exact quote, bloggers aren't writers, something to that effect. It was said in a condesending way.

Made me think. I wonder how many people come here first thing in the morning to get their hs sports news, and opinions.

I come here first, sports page second, Jeremy third.

Speaking of NH sports pages. Sometimes Dave the glass half empty is 100 % right. Very Happy Nobody has written more positive things about BG then me, but I am also realistic.

OK I'm on a roll now. Two other things.

I am listening to FNL Friday, and the 2 hosts are going on about Dimitri {they had no clue he was hurt}, so I call the station and tell the guy that answers the phone that Floras is out and he should relay the message. He didn't and these guys didn't find out until Jeremy came on much later. A little homework goes a long way.

My other gripe is the combo hockey/ hoops show. No doubt Tarrier does his homework, and Thaler knows his hockey. It's like putting ketchup on lasanga. I don't know of many high school hoop heads who care about hockey, and visa versa.Maybe one hour straight hoops and the next hour straight hockey.


I hope it doesn't come off as critical. I know any show promoting hs sports is good. My dream team of hosts is Jeremy, Pete, and Dave talking hoops {all divisions} for 2 hours every Saturday. Basketball Now that would be a show.

One thing to keep in mind for you radio hosts. I am sure a large part of your audience is the same people who come to these sites. Bloggers may not be writers, but the bloggers on this site know their hs sports.

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Blogger bashing

Post  tarrier on Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:13 pm

Here's a link to the segment which had GNG feeling a little "blogger bashed" by my co-host Marc Thaler from yesterday's edition of "The NH High School Sports Show" on WGIR-AM 610 and 96.7FM "The Wave". I was asking Marc for his professional opinion on how I handled the release of the news of Dimitri Floras' injury which I learned from Merrimack coach Tim Goodridge. Click to listen.

http://www.wgiram.com/player/?station=WGIR-AM&program_name=podcast&program_id=NEWSSTORIES.xml&mid=21770209

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  Tulliver on Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:03 pm

Well my take is this -

Journalists have to adhere to a different set of standards than bloggers. Bloggers have more leeway but they also have to work harder to develop trust.

Any random person can put anything out there on a blog - or a forum - without any fact checking or seriousness. Does anyone remember the voyforum?

Journalists who work for established news agencies receive the trust that their news organization has built. But, because they're part of a news organization they also have to be more cautious as they answer to an organization' standards as well as their own.


PS - I think Tarrier acted in good faith and amended the information as new info came in. It happens.

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Combo hockey/hoop

Post  tarrier on Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:13 pm

I wanted to also address the GNG comment/complaint about how we talk about NH High School hoop AND hockey on our Sat radio show. In full honesty, I was never much of a high school hockey fan, or a hockey fan in general until recently. I've enjoyed going to Monarchs games and following/covering that team over the last 11 seasons, but I REALLY got "hooked on hockey" during last years magical Stanley Cup Championship run by the Boston Bruins. I'm sure alot of people jumped on the B's bandwagon last year and I'm glad I'm one of them. So with the recent rebirth of hockey in New England, when we launched the winter edition of "The NH High School Sports Show" on WGIR/96.7 "The Wave" in December we opted to go with a hoop and hockey mix. Add in the fact that Marc Thaler is the lead high school hockey writer for the Union Leader and he also features hockey on his www.nhgameday.blogspot.com website(yes, GNG he's a blogger too!)...it made perfect sense for us to take advantage of his strengths and show NH High School hockey some love too. Business-wise, it also makes sense to appeal to a bigger audience for both ratings and sponsorship reasons. The other reason we do hoops/hockey is I wanted to differentiate from the show I used to do on WGAM which was/is all hoops. I'm a competitive guy, and I really want to make sure my show is better, more well done, more informative and more entertaining and ultimately more listened to than what the other guys on the radio are doing. The bottom line, whether it's this forum, the radio, TV, newspapers, websites like NHSportspage, NH Notebook, etc...there's more people promoting NH High School sports than ever before which is a good thing in my opinion.

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:57 pm

I will weigh in on this topic. I am not here to criticize other sport's information outlets or people (broadcasters and writers) who write about and promote HS sports in NH. Every one does their job with professionalism or if it's "bloggers", while not being their job, their passion comes through. I like to think my passion and love for HS sports (along with other Forum members), especially basketball, shows in my postings and my verbal forays with The Asst, Tulliver, GNG and others.

I will point out some facts about the Forum. In the last 2 years the Forum has been the first site that has broken news about 3 very important news items:

1) Tony Johnson stepping down as BG football coach.

2) Dimitri Floras injuring his wrist.

3) Mike Mitchell Jr being suspended for the D2 State Basketball Title game as a junior.


I'm sure there are other news items this Forum was the first to report, but the above 3 are the biggest to my knowledge. The Forum also knew about Dimitri Floras coming back to Merrimack before any other outlets, but the moderators decided to let the "regular outlets" break the news first.

What is a "regular outlet" these days? I can tell you the line is finer between what is a "regular outlet" these days for information and what is not a regular outlet. I can make this informed assumption: I can confidentally say most hard core fans of HS sports would have a tendency to check out the Sports Forum for information first or second before they go to "regular outlets." How do I know this? I talk to a lot of people who tell me this. Look at the registered members we have so far. We are at 233 now. Think about the unregistered people checking out our site on game days, game nights and the day after. I'm willing to bet a majority of them go here before they go to NHIAA, UL, Telegraph or most any other site that covers HS sports.

3 or 4 times this year I had the oppurtunity of being at a prime HS basketball game and posting updates and info instantly on the Forum for members and non members to see. Do you get that with other sites that cover HS sports? You have your answer.

Again, I'm not here to get into a squirting contest with other sites or people who cover HS sports. Please remember this. With regards to HS basketball I attend summer league games, fall games, AAU games and a lot of HS games during the regular and playoff season. I talk to a lot of coaches, players, officials and fans for 12 months in every year. One would be ill advised to use the statement, "he's just a blogger and doesn't know what he's saying", with me, other moderators and other Forum members.

In the end we are just trying to have fun talking about HS sports and in the end promoting the athletes, coaches and sports they play. It is their passion that fuels our passion to talk about the sports and to attend the games.

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  Jeremy Leveille on Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:57 pm

Just now listened to that clip by Thaler...wow, that's a slap in the face. I'm emailing him now with some choice words.

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Bloggers are people too

Post  GNG on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:58 pm

This was what I posted before ANYONE in NH. "I just got word Dimitri Floras is out quite awhile with a wrist injury sustained against Concord."

The game was played on a Tuesday. The best player in NH gets seriously injured and a blogger has to be the first to report it three days later.

You should be thanking us, not ridiculing us.

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  Jeremy Leveille on Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:20 pm

I sent a lengthy email to Thaler earlier today. I would prefer to keep any issue I have with his comments between him and I rather than putting it on here. But I will say this. The guy really needs to wake up and realize that it's 2012. People nowadays don't get their information from newspapers, they get it on the internet.

One other thing that rubbed me the wrong way. He says that if it was him he would have called up Dimitri on the phone to verify his injury status before reporting anything. Really Marc? Seriously? Ok, first off it's easy for him to second guess looking back at the situation in hindsight. Secondly, here's a look at how this conversation would have likely played out if he had called Dimitri up on the phone...

Dimitri: Hello?
Thaler: Dimitri, hello. This is Marc Thaler from the Union Leader.
Dimitri: Um, how did you get my cell phone number?
Thaler: Never mind that, tell me about your wrist.
Dimitri: This is really creepy that you called me on my cell phone. Do you realize I'm a 16 year old kid?
Thaler: I don't care about that. Just tell me how many games you're going to miss with that injury?
Dimitri: Um, I have to get back to class. (hangs up)

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  EBlessNHSP on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:16 am

If I were everybody here I would not take his comments too seriously (or personally). Mr. Thaler himself is a Blogger: http://nhgameday.BLOGspot.com/

So there ya go...those comments he made are now a lot more confusing. Shocked

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:39 am

Asst - I don't believe we're taking the comments personally. Mr Thaler had an avenue on which to provide his views of a certain situation and myself, Jeremy and GNG are taking advantage of the avenue we have to put our views on a certain situation.

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  EBlessNHSP on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:47 am

Ah - fair enough T&F!! I wasn't sure if some contributors were confusing the forum with a "Blog"... Wink

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  JAF on Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:50 am


Disclaimer: I didn't listen to the podcast yet... IMO the difference between this "blog" and Thaler's "blog" - many people actually post and read this blog. I could say the same for Jeremy's blog too, although less people probably write there today than before. Even during football season, you don't see people responding to Thaler's blog. For me his stuff isn't as good as other sites, but then again - of the 3 sports he covers, only football interests me. I love hockey, but I'm not into the HS scene. I also don't follow HS Lacrosse. The other blogs that I have in my bookmark's are Joe Marchilena's, Dave Haley's, and Roger Brown's.

This site is fortunate to have multiple moderators keeping things "clean" and multiple writers that have a passion for the sports they follow. As we all can be aware there's a general bad rap about "bloggers" because not every blogger out there is shall we say "coherent" and "topical". Marc writes for a paper in a city where there's a lot of "non-sense" posted - ever tried following one of those UL blogs? Same could be said for the Telegraph too - there's some very one sided, strongly opinionated, and ever ready to write/post people out there. Perhaps those are the "bloggers" Marc is referring to, not us nice, mostly sane, and usually civil ones at this site!

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  Tulliver on Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:52 am

This is actually a debate going on in the field of journalism as the internet age redefines media.

I don't think Thaler meant the comment as harshly as some are taking it but that is my personal take.

Also, Jeremy, I will very respectfully disagree with the way you think a phone call would have been received from Thaler to Floras. MANY players at the caliber of Floras speak with the reporters on a regular basis and some have agreements with their coaches that it's okay to release their phone number to say a Pete Tarrier - a Marc Thaler etc.


Just a little food for thought about the citizen journalism debate (which this seems to fall into) for those of you interested....
http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2006/09/your-guide-to-citizen-journalism270.html

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:17 am

"Perhaps those are the "bloggers" Marc is referring to, not us nice, mostly sane, and usually civil ones at this site!"
JAF

Good point JAF.

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  EBlessNHSP on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:23 am

Great comments by Tully and link to back it up, thanks for that. In the last 10 years, especially in sports, the Internet has completely transformed what many of us grew up accustomed to. I was a cereal and sports page kid in the 80s/90s and read every single word front to back. Even the box scores because god forbid I missed if Luc Longley had 3 rebounds.

Now - box scores are harder and harder to find in newspapers, the Internet has replaced those, but here in NH its still hard to find data. Tell me where you can see a box score from every NHIAA basketball game in the State? Closest thing is NHSportsPage.com and Haley has to beat down doors, pay for local paper subscriptions and in some cases rely on coaches and ADs to sporadically provide him the info. The rest of the world is playing catch-up and the newspapers have only gotten worse in the sports arena.

Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Blogs, Websites, and Forums are all various vehicles to obtain content on the internet. Twitter is the instant, breaking news environment, Blogs are articles based on fact and opinion, Websites typically contain more than just stories, like stats and other functionality, and forums are a place for the common man to discuss it all, which is what we do every day here.

I do believe Thaler knew what he was saying when he made that comment, but I don't particularly care. Bottom line for those in the "online" community/media its our job to maintain integrity and focus on what we do best. If the print media wants to take jabs that's fine...they are sorely falling behind in what their sports reading customers want, which is online breaking news, scores, statistics and opinion (hm, where can you find those?) from reputable sources in a streaming platform that allows you to get if from any device (phone, ipad or computer) as soon as it happens.

The readership at these spaces will only increase as the next wave of parents, student/athletes and fans only has more exposure to the online world.

I love it when the media can provide a good topic for discussion.



Last edited by The Assistant on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  Jeremy Leveille on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:26 am

I don't think Thaler was referring to people who post comments on the UL site (I doubt he bothers reading those comments). His exact words on the show were:

"In this age of bloggers, not everyone's a reporter and there's a lot of people who think they're reporters."

He said this right after Tarrier mentioned how when he spoke to Coach Goodridge about the Floras injury he texted it to Dave Haley and myself. It's not just what he said in the clip but his condescending tone as well.

Plus a couple weeks back I was a guest on their show. When I came on the show Tarrier introduced me as 'Jeremy Leveille from nhnotebook.com.' But when Thaler posted the podcast of it on his NH Game Day blog he referred to me as 'blogger Jeremy Leveille.'

You can read between the lines here and see why I'm offended listening to that clip. Joe M, Dave Haley, Roger Brown and the folks from the forum here should be offended too.


Last edited by Jeremy Leveille on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  EBlessNHSP on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:45 am

There is so much irony in this "issue" I can't stand it.

A. Mark Thaler has a Blog himself. He uses "Blogspot" as his method to host his website. It costs him nothing host that website and to post a story there. I don't see anywhere on his website that the Union Leader sponsors his blog, it's basically his own little personal slice of the Internet. We've seen many of these pop up all over the state (There was a DIV football blog at one point, and a track and field blog hosted by one of the coaches).
B. His comments were made on a "Podcast". I'm not sure if this podcast aired live (I assume it did) in WGIR but either way the Internet made it possible for basically all of us to hear it. What he's posted is essentially an online audio blog.

All this tells me is he basically he's not even sure what a "blogger" is. Fact of the matter is none of us really know. Its a Internetism that has gone from one thing, to another. Now anybody with a Twitter handle can be considered a "blogger". I personally don't consider posting on this forum as being a "blogger". but for others they may, so feel free to feel offended if you want. I do not. But I do think he was a bit naive by making those comments.

BTW Jeremy - being referenced as a "blogger" is not a bad thing in my book. You have your own website, you have facts from the games, you write about it and people go to your specific site to read it. That's probably more than Thaler has.

I would just say it's Thaler being Thaler and move on...


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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  EBlessNHSP on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:00 pm

I will also say this - you read about media members of all platforms taking sly shots at one another all the time. Happens right out in the open sometimes during press conferences. It is what it is. He was wrong to make that comment - but its a comment that has been made by MANY media members over the last several years. It definitely wasn't needed.

We're a small state with a fairly small sports community and following base so anything he or anybody else says in the media that is controversial is going to get picked up on and discussed. It will be interesting to hear next weeks podcast and if his comments are discussed.

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  HaleyNHsports on Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:01 pm

First off I appreciate the kind words about my site from my buddy over at BG (the glass is half-empty again btw..), I had fun reading the responses and my buddy Pete going into full spin control.

Personally Marc’s comments don’t affect me at all. It just doesn’t matter to me what he thinks of my site or what people like Jeremy & I do. I don’t have anything against Marc and I don’t really have a relationship with him like I do with two of his colleagues at the UL.

All I’ll say is that this kind of ‘War of Words’ (if this can even be described as that) reminds me of Rick Reilly & Bill Simmons’ feud on ESPN.com. Reilly was sort of the comical sports editorial voice of that site (which is like saying Jay Leno is the funniest guy in Late Night) after they signed him away from SI. When Simmons was signed & brought over all of his readers Reilly sort of had a ‘Who is Bill Simmons anyway?’ attitude and because Bill has famously paper thin skin a war of words ensued. The point is Reilly didn’t respect Simmons because instead of making $20 an hour at the Boston Herald Simmons started his own Digital city website and grew his audience through his hard work and how well he could write & relate to his audience. He did it the hard the way. Sound familiar?

Look when I was on varsity back at Gilford when I was 15 we finished the season on a Friday night, then on Monday morning we went to class at 7:30 and had what was called break at 9. It was at break that 12 of us on the team ran to the library in school where the Union Leader had been delivered (barely by 9) and it had the final rankings for all four classes. It was then that with our fingers we ran down the names and saw #7 Gilford…#10 St. Thomas. We were playing St. Thomas in round 1 in three days at home. Up until that moment we had no clue where we finished or who we would be playing. No clue who St. Thomas had either..

Do you think any kid in the state can imagine that scenario? That was 1988…it might as well have been 1955. The point is that the way sports is covered has changed so much. It is constantly evolving and if you’re scared of change or insecure about how people get their stats, news and information then you’re in big trouble because technology loses out as often as father time. I never thought I would ever tweet anything in my life but there I am doing it and I’ll evolve again when the next step comes along.

GNG and the Assistant are right, we should be happy we have all the information we have in a state this small. I email with & talk to coaches from Trinity, Manchester Central, Lisbon and Groveton. All the time. One with 2,000 students and one with 200. It’s possible to do that now.

I’m a fan of other sites and certainly of Pete and Marc’s radio show. If it takes some people a little longer to understand the new landscape then hey, that’s part of evolving too..

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  GNG on Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:36 pm

Well said Dave.

I knew you had a sense of humor.

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:28 pm

What's funny is that I didn't get a chance before 7:00 to 8:30 pm last Friday before the BG at Trinity game to ask Dave if that "half full" BG boy's basketball glass was a growler, pint or shot glass........... Wink

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

Post  GNG on Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:50 am

Pete nailed it. Try going online with the union leader to get a hs story. Can't.

Union leader is the WORSE website in NH as far as getting hs sport stories. Far and away THE WORSE.

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Thank you.

Post  basketballtime on Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:26 pm

Thanks GNC i was wondering when someone was going to mention that the UL is the worst ever when it comes to hs sports and for that matter all of the sports coverage period. Along time ago i used to get the UL but stopped because of that exact reason. The Nashua Telegraph does it a thousand times better. What a Face

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Dave Haley does it again.

Post  GNG on Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:40 pm

Great piece about the Keene situation. Indepth reporting, not bad for a guy with a blog. Too bad we don't read these types of stories in NH newspapers online.

There are many NH high school sport related stories out there for trained reporters to write about.

All we get our feel good fluff stories.

Great job as usual Dave.

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Downtown Roger Brown

Post  GNG on Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:17 am

Nh football report has some new info on possible realignment for NH hs football for 2013.

Great insight on what is going on. Very Happy

I am so happy I can wake up in the morning and go click,click on my computer and get all these FANTASTIC NH sport stories. cheers

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Re: Bloggers are people too.

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