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Floras back in town

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Re: Floras back in town

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:13 pm

For what it's worth I reffed 4 games in the 8th grade Mass. state AAU tournament last June at UMass-Lowell. I was amazed that some of these teams/players were "8th grade teams." Of the 8 teams I saw, in my opinion:

2 teams were 8th grade teams

2 teams were like freshman teams

4 teams were like JV teams

There were at least 4 boys I saw that were 6'1 to 6'3 and went anywhere from 190 pounds to around 250 pounds and all with muscles and muscle definition. I was floored in comparing the Mass 8th grade AAU teams to NH 8th grade AAU teams. The 4 JV-like teams I saw would easily beat any NH 8th grade AAU teams by 15 to 25 points.

I asked some one in the know, "What the heck." That person told me a lot of the kids in the elite AAU programs in Mass stay back 1 to 2 years as a way of advancing their basketball careers and to get noticed for college scholarships. He told me, "Staying back a couple of years, in the long run, will be cheaper for some of these kids because prep schools don't give out money to every body. For some of these kids staying back is the only avenue they have to get some college scholarships."

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T@F say it isn't so...

Post  boxout on Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:40 pm

I have heard this trend as well. I guess society as we know it is falling apart. I can see this by some of the posts on here. I guess I am right to understand then that AAU has no minimum grades requirements. Kind of sad. I was always told that you had to pass school to play sports. Meaning if you are staying back in the 7th grade, then you don't have the grades to play sports. Please explain to me how this is happening.
Basketball times I never stated that students need to graduate by 21. You are having a difficult time comprehending what I am typing so I need to take the high road with you. Good luck to you in the future.

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Re: Floras back in town

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:52 pm

With college costs rising to 30 to 60 thousand/year it doesn't surprise me a tall with what is hoing on with staying back 1 to 2 years on purpose.

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Shameful

Post  SeacoastDad on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:46 pm

I have been reading this topic as an outside observer who doesn’t really follow NH Div 1 hoops. That said, I can’t believe how many of you are absolutely trashing this kid. It sounds like this young man is a pretty good player (by NH standards). He went away to prep school, and had a difficult time adapting to being away from home. Maybe it was loneliness, maybe it had something to do with basketball, maybe a combination of both; none of you know with certainty, and if you’re not a family member, frankly it’s none of your business. Now he is returning to his home school (where they are required to re-enroll him if he lives in the school district), and presumably wants to continue playing basketball.

What started as a simple discussion about eligibility (which is an interesting and worthwhile question) quickly deteriorated into a shameful attack on this kid, his family and each other.

Being a newbie, I wondered if there are any guidelines to posting in this forum. Here’s what I found:

Please abide by the following rules when posting:
1. No flaming, i.e. no blatant remarks of hatred, etc. on any other poster, player, team or school.
2. Be respectful, if you wouldn't say it to your grandmother, don't say it here, you won't last long.
3. Bring intelligent discussion to the table and enjoy this for what it is, individual opinion.
and:
1. No "flaming" against players, schools, members of the board, other individuals or officials.
2. Do not discuss grades or academics unless it's an achievement.
3. If you have a problem with another user, do not post it publicly; contact the administrator or a moderator.

By the way, it took me well into the second page of this discussion to realize that “Floras” actually has a first name. It's Dimitri.

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Re: Floras back in town

Post  Tulliver on Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:21 pm

Seacoast Dad!

WELCOME to the forum!


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Welcome seacoast

Post  basketballtime on Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:36 pm

Welcome aboard seacoast thank you for standing up for a child. With that said i probably should have taken the high road but when it comes to picking on kids i have a short fuse my fault. I do wish Dimitri all the best and hope he gets what he needs to make his dreams come true in both the academic and Basketball field and for that matter all the kids out there doing the same keep on balling. Basketball

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Re: Floras back in town

Post  NHHoopsFan on Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:22 pm

Kids with good academics are repeating grades just to get an edge in athletics. From what I see, this is very common in both MA and NH. All else being equal, there is no doubt the extra year of growth, practice and experience gives these kids a competitive advantage over their younger competition. This is a peeve of mine, but apparently there are no rules to prevent it.

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Re: Floras back in town

Post  goldenbear on Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:34 pm

I dont see anyone trashing the kid even box out is only trashing the system. I dont mind the 5th year prep but I do mind the reclassifying.

New Hampton as had a very good basketball program for years and they never used to reclassify, but the reclassifying is away of getting around the number of PG your allowed.

When Kaleb Joesph gets to his senior year he wont count as PG but in reality will be a 5th year senior. They are only allowed a certain amount to PG. So the reclassifying is way for prep to stock rosters.

To me what Connor Green did is way more than acceptable he went to A prep school to get into a better college. That is the purpose of what a PG is.

So I think I would have zero problem with Floras coming back ( as fan I am glad he is) except he was taking Sophomore classes if he was junior at KUA he would be bale to jump back in forth all he wants. But the reclassifying as made it a sticky issue.

So I think the Prep school governing body need to look at this reclassifying thing it is more their issue then the Floras family.


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Re: Floras back in town

Post  goldenbear on Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:40 pm

Repeating 8th grade yes it as been more common the last few years 3 or 4 kids have done it that last two years.

there are some Sophomore that are 16 going on 17 and other who are born in September that just turned 15 like Tim Preston.

Who after he graduates should look at going prep if he wants to play basketball at high level.

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My last post

Post  GNG on Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:08 pm

I had a good run, enjoyed it a ton.



SEE ya all ON THE OTHER SIDE Very Happy


Last edited by Tuesday and Friday on Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Obviously, GNG had an extended tour of famous Merrimack locations this evening. I'll give him a mulligan.)

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Golden bear

Post  basketballtime on Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:16 pm

I dont see anyone trashing the kid even box out is only trashing the system.

---Removed because I agree and don't want these comments showing up again, Thanks--- The Assistant

Still think that's not trashing the kid?

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Re: Floras back in town

Post  EBlessNHSP on Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:44 am

Ok - welcome back from a Computer Hiatus over the last 4 days. Quite the thread. I thin in most cases neither the player nor grades are being discussed here but I have to be honest I haven't read this entire thread with a fine toothed comb.

Basketballtime & Boxout - You guys love to hate each other. Take your personal conversations from here on out to Private Message please.

Jeremy - People are signing their names, their called "handles". You are a "media member" and have a "blog" so it makes sense for you to give out your real name. Most of us on here are just Dads, fans and neighbors and there is no need to post actual names unless you want to. I'll try to fix your PM issue.

T&F/Tully - Thanks for moderating, everybody should thank them as well they do a great job in my absence and I truly appreciate it.

This is definitely an issue that we can discuss. Dimitri's grades are not being questioned, more the system of which he is being allowed to transfer back to Merrimack and play. The ethics of that is also in play here and is not a reflection on the player although it may appear that way. How or why the Floras family has decided to do this is really irrelevant, the fact that they CAN do it is a discussable matter.

Try to keep this civil amongst yourselves and also try to keep Dimitri and the Floras family in mind when you write a post.

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Maybe it isn't so bad...

Post  boxout on Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:06 am

My first reaction, unreal when I hear parents are keeping their kids back in 7th or 8th grade to enhance their child's chances of playing sports in the future. I am guessing the way around this is these kids are not playing JR High or Middle School ball. I am assuming and maybe wrong, but don't you only get eligibility in 7th-9th and 6th-8th depending on Jr high or Middle school. To some folks, yes there is a difference between a middle school and a junior high. Can you get a 4th year at a middle school or Jr high?
Now after some thoughts, I guess if many on this board support students bouncing from school to school, must not have a problem with this situation either.
There really is no difference between repeating 8th grade or transferring schools and reclassifying to get another year. It is also the same thing as a PG year. These students have already graduated HS and are now repeating their Senior year of HS. It is just at a PG school. They are not in college, but yet they are not in HS, though they are taking HS courses. Obviously if these students are struggling at HS, I still question how they are playing and how they graduated HS.

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Re: Floras back in town

Post  Tulliver on Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:04 pm

Some parents I know are interested in PG because they want their kid to have a transitional year with more structure than they'd have in college. I actually can think of 3-4 kids who did that.

I also think it isn't always grades that the year of PG will improve but SAT scores.

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SAT's interesting...

Post  boxout on Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:29 pm

Tully with all due respect, to me that sounds very much like an excuse. The SAT is a standard test. Usually anyone who takes the SAT once, and doesn't do well or up to ones expectations, they simply take it again. To pay $22,000 to improve SAT scores seems almost silly. There are books at book stores for $35.00 to prepare one for the SAT's. These are actual cheat sheets. Not to mention many students take PSAT's before they take an SAT. The SAT changes from year-to-year, it does not change from month-to-month. So one would think on a multiple choice test, that naturally after taking it once, you should improve every time you take it. Eventually to the point you could ace it. Though I do think you are only allowed to take it twice a year. But the changes from year-to-year are not that drastic. I would think that if you score a 650 then take it again, you should be higher. I can see situations where it might be lowered, like if you get a 1350 and take it again and get a 1310.
I guess I have to ask, are these 3-4 students you know athletes or just common everyday students?

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Re: Floras back in town

Post  Tulliver on Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:40 pm

Two athletes - one played in college after but D3 the other did not play in college.

The other 2 (1 went prep one did not) might have played some sports in school but nothing major.

There are some students who REALLY need an extra year of high school to improve their vocabulary and critical thinking skills for SATs. Those kids aren't helped by the books or even the SAT improvement courses. They need an extra year of core academics (especially for vocabulary, reading comprehension and basic critical and analytical thinking skills).

This is especially the case for kids where English might not be their first language.


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Re: Floras back in town

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:50 pm

I'll tell you one thing. After reffing for a bit coaches are just fine in the vocabulary analytical skills dept.

Not too many of them need extra classes or PG to better thenselves in vocabulary. Twisted Evil

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Re: Floras back in town

Post  JAF on Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:04 pm


Boxout - Don't think in terms of the difference between 1800 and 2100 or more on your SAT's - think more in the 1000-1200. Whatever it takes to get you eligible to play D1 sports. Coaches have "spots" that can bypass a normal students eligibility requirements for a school. A PG year will yes, repeat 12th grade to a degree - bringing up the GPA and yes, allow the student another shot to get above a certain value so that the coach doesn't have to use one of his precious slots.

Sometimes what this says is - English isn't the first language, but other times it's a "tell" for what/how a district teaches and how a student learns. The SAT's are not always the best indicator. Sometimes coaches will tell kids to take the ACT's too. There's a few colleges out there now that don't look at SAT anymore, rather only ACT scores.

There's a lot that goes into the decision...

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Re: Floras back in town

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:08 pm

Agree with you on the Sat/Act thing, Jaf. My daughter's #1 school she applied at for next year told her they put much more emphasis on the. Act instead of the Sat.

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5th year

Post  bb603 on Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:20 am

Goldenbear said: "To me what Connor Green did is way more than acceptable he went to A prep school to get into a better college. That is the purpose of what a PG is."

What does this mean: A better college? or a better basketball program?

The 5th year of HS at a prep school is about playing sports in college.

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Very Well Stated...

Post  boxout on Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:00 am

BB603 someone finally gets it. I thought maybe I was losing it, but I am happy to see I am not. I have noticed a lot of games of semantics on here. Just look at the SAT and ACT thing, it is still a test. One that 95% of kids heading to college, have to take. But those 95% don't get another free year of education to improve their standing, not to mention another year of playing sports. I agree BB603 if these athletes struggle so much in HS, how are they graduating? Are academic institutions just passing them along? Not too mention there is a large segment of students who struggle who are not athletes who just give up on school. Most kids who struggle in school, hate school. So it is interesting that struggling athletes would do the opposite and go to school to repeat something they have already received, a diploma.
Why do so many people have a problem admitting that the current system of PG school is not fair to all students? Oh wait, I will get the life isn't fair speech. Some almost defend this situation.

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PG Year - Another Perspective

Post  SeacoastDad on Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:34 pm

Another perspective on why students do a PG year before college:

http://www.admissionsquest.com/~resources/showarticle.cfm/articleid/32/articletypeid/5/topic/post-graduate-year


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Thanks SeacoastDad

Post  basketballtime on Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:04 pm

Thanks SeacoastDad very few don't get it and with this article that puts it into layman's terms you would hope you would be able to understand it. All these kids have different situations and have a chance to better themselves by doing a PG. If your one of the few who still don't get it or don't like it for some illogical reason you most likely never will get it, and quite frankly it really doesn't matter it's not about them it's what best for the kids that are trying to get somewhere in life. Basketball

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I get the pg year, but

Post  bb603 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:38 pm

I previously said and restate here: If I had to do it over I would have my son be a redshirt/readiness kid.

I would gain a year for him that way. He did not need it academically, but graduated HS at 17. Turned 18 in late August after his senior year.

He would have benefitted from another year of baseball before college. But, he was ready academically to go to college and there is no way I could justify the cost of a year of prep school.


I understand why kids go to prep school for a pg year, but in many cases (not all) it is primarily for sports.


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Re: Floras back in town

Post  JAF on Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:49 pm

If you weren't a sports dad, but were say a socialite, a high ranking politician, or had more money than you could spend, then perhaps you'd feel prep school was something different - a place to send your kid to be with other kids like him/her or a "safe place" to keep the child away from media/paparazzi.

Yes, I agree to the point that prep school is used for athletics rather heavily, but if the athletes are going for free, then who's paying? I also agree that there certainly is a failure in some schools to properly educate the athlete, but I cannot place blame on the schools. One other thing a prep school gives you is smaller classes. That gives the teachers the opportunity to monitor or mentor the troubled student.

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Re: Floras back in town

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