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Prep School?

Post  boxout on Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:55 am

OK it is time for Boxout to get an education. I need someone to tell me what is a prep school? Don't get me wrong I think it is great when anybody is continuing their education. But what are the details involved? What is the difference between say your senior year of HS and your FR. year of college? What classes are you taking? Do grades transfer to colleges? What type of student attends this situation? Are there scholarships? Why don't all HS graduates do this?
Please don't look at this as an athletic situation. I want to know the "Normal Student" going there is doing.
I also believe these schools start as 9th graders, so I am not talking about the student that goes to school their from 9th grade to 12th grade. I am asking about the 13th year of school.


Last edited by boxout on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : 13th year)

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Re: Prep School?

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:28 am

First lets talk about it from the perspective of going to a regular HS, graduating & then examing the prospects of going to a prep school.

As far as a "normal student" goes, it is a way to improve their academic standing to gain entry into a college of their choice. Grades in Prep are not "transferable" persay. Like any kid taking AP classes in HS (assuming your school offers them), you can possibly get credit for them and avoid taking some of the intro level college classes.

Prep grades can however demonstrate that student is now taking their studies more seriously than they did in HS. This is a factor that college admission staffs take into account.

Not sure what you mean by difference between HS senior year & College freshmen classes. Obviously, HS classes are limited in regards to what the school offers. In college, your freshmen year classes are generally dictated by your choice of a major.

The reason most HS students do not do this is extremely simple. $$$$$$$$! While there is some scholarship/aid money, You are effectively talking about an extra year of college. Hard to justify if you have other kids and limited funds. If you are a high end student, there is no real academic benefit to going prep after HS.


Now, Yes, you can attend a prep school instead of going to a regular HS. Again though, its big $$$$$. It is a viable alternative for those who feel their kid may get more from the education in a private school versus public. The simple truth is private schools to not have to deal with a lot of the issues in the classroom that your public school MUST deal with. It is an expensive alternative, but many feel its worth it.


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One Core Class

Post  chicagokid43 on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:53 am

Many factors can play a part in a player wanting to prep.

1. If you go just for a post grad year you can only use one class to help bump your current qualifying GPA. Only one class can be used to improve that. However if you have a decent GPA or at least a qualifying GPA and do not have the minimum SAT scores prep school can help with the extra scoring to make you eligible for money if a scholarship offer presents itself. The individual attention at prep schools can often show nice increases in SAT scores.

2. Structure and time management. Many students benefit from the structure of prep school in both study habits and time management. For many students going away for college is a big jump. Going to a prep school that is somewhat local allows a player a year to mature and get used to being away while also staying in New England and having family still within reach.

3. Competitiveness and classroom intensity. Because many of the prep schools are elite students that have been involved with this structure the post grads see first hand that the level of education and students going into college is another level. The have a year to become use to the higher expectations as well as the demand for more study time outside of class both in your dorm,in the library and if you are an athlete even on the road.

4. Scholarships technically do not exist but FASFA does. If you are financially challenged there is financial aid that can be applied for. There have always been rumors of scholarships, college coaches footing the bill, shoe companies involvement and even 3rd party parents helping out. I am not sure how true any of it is but many college programs have players that get extra years at prep schools somewhat consistently as well as AAU clubs that have players that seem to filter through the same schools also. Again only rumor, I have no actual knowledge of any wrong doing.

Let's be honest though, the usual student that gets the extra year is an athlete who is betting on getting to the elusive scholarship. The bridge between high school and college is bigger than some kids are prepared for so an extra year both in the classroom and on the court can be the difference. Not to mention the exposure of AAU and the college coaches gaining some confidence in the players academics also. Sometimes when a player has had some suspect grades and low test scores the coach can make a bigger argument to the admissions people if the student/player can show solid effort and results at a prep school with a good reputation.

Hope this helped some..

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Re: Prep School?

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:34 am

4. Scholarships technically do not exist but FASFA does.

Actually, scholarships do exisit at most prep schools. Most are merit based, some such as Brewster have endowment based scholarhips.

http://www.boardingschoolreview.com/merit-scholarship-offerd-schools.php

http://www.brewsteracademy.org/RelId/606881/ISvars/default/Endowed_Scholarships.htm


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Thanks guys

Post  boxout on Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:29 am

NHJT and Chikid thank you for your input. I am still a little stumped though. Once again please don't look at this as strictly an athletic thing. NHJT what I meant by Senior year of HS, and Freshman year of college is what is in between, like the 13th year. Do students who attend these schools as a 13th year HS student not HS graduates? Are they in the same classes as say a Senior or Junior at Prep school, who are still in HS? Do you pick your classes? Do you have to go full-time? Many HS seniors who struggled in HS have to go to like Nashua Community College and bring their grades up and then they can transfer to another school. NHJT please don't think I am ignorant, I get your message about $$$$. But isn't it worth it to any parent to send a child to another year of Prep if you know they could get better grades in College with a year a Prep school? Is it one of those situations where the money might be well spent? How many students at say, Phillips-Exeter are 13th year students? I graduated with a 20 year old in my class, do prep schools potentially have a 21 year old on campus? Do students in HS that are interested in say acting, go to these schools for the extra year? Or a business student? What is a 13th year student called? A senior?
Now to the athletics. In a prep school are these 13th year players, playing with say a Soph, or Junior in HS? Can a FR. at Philips Exeter actually play a 13th year player in a game at Hampton? Are these schools formatted for athletes? Meaning do wrestlers, golfers, tennis players, etc...also go this route? Or is it strictly baseball, basketball, and football? Cost a side, why wouldn't any NH athlete do this?
Times have changed since I was in college, but when I was in college, FR year had the largest amount of dropouts/quit school.


Last edited by boxout on Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : One more thing. What does AAU have anything to do with this?)

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Re: Prep School?

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:52 am

Go check out Brewster/New Hampton/Exeter tuition rates...that will answer your last question. Over $20K for living on campus. Not to mention these schools are very difficult to get into academically, mainly because they take a lot of international students (cream of the crop). Unlike your local State college, they don't need your money, they only want the best of the best as alumni so they can get your money when you rich and famous for winning the Pulitzer.

It actually amazes me how many NH kids to an eprep year for what appears to be athletic purposes, only to go play DII or DIII ball (in any sport).

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Re: Prep School?

Post  Hoop Fan on Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:42 pm

Assistant, as a local basketball journalist, I am surprised you made the following statement - "It actually amazes me how many NH kids to an prep year for what appears to be athletic purposes, only to go play DII or DIII ball (in any sport)"

Would it be such a bad thing for a kid to do a post-graduate year, improving both his academic resume and basketball skillset, and then get offered a basketball scholarship at a DII school such as Bentley or Stonehill, or be offered an opportunity to play at a DIII school such as Williams, Amherst, or Middlebury? Would that be a waste of an investment for that family, in your opinion, if the PG year was the only way for that kid to accomplish those goals, even if they are "DII or DIII"? DI is not the only answer, and very few NH-based kids have the potential to get there.

If you talked to recent NH kids, and their parents, who did PG years, such as Stoyle (Brandeis), Tsourangis (WPI), and Bayliss (Wheaton), I think they would tell you the extra PG year was one of the best decisions they've ever made.

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Re: Prep School?

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:10 pm

boxout

"NHJT please don't think I am ignorant, I get your message about $$$$. But isn't it worth it to any parent to send a child to another year of Prep if you know they could get better grades in College with a year a Prep school? Is it one of those situations where the money might be well spent?"

Key phrase - if you KNOW - No one KNOWS for sure and it is a lot of money to find out. It really comes down to how you as a parent feel your kid is going to do when he/she gets to college. There is a very real reason why most of us do not send our kids to prep school. If your kid struggles in his first year of college, what difference is there if he needs to go another year at college versus 4 years in college plus the prep year. for the vast majority of HS seniors, they are what they are. One more year at a prep school is not going to change things in any more a significant way than going straight to college. There is no guarantee that they wont fall on their face in a PG year either.

As far as money well spent, why not just send your kid to a prep for all four years. There is no doubt your going to be better prepared for college after that than after attending any public school. It is like everything in life - it is worth the $$$, in this case, how many kids do you have? Can you afford to send them all? Which ones would benefit best from 4 years there or just a PG year? Not much different than do you send your kid to the absolute very best university they can get into or an in state school that still provides a very good program but at a more affordable cost to you and them (balancing a good education with lower loan payback costs Vs a great education and owing 80-100K as you start your working life).

There is a very good reason why there are a very small number of prep schools versus the number of college, junior colleges & community colleges. The simply is not a huge demand for the service they provide.


- As far as the athletics go, yes it is possible that you could find a true incoming freshman playing with a post grad kid. Very unlikey though, these schools have JV teams and some have frosh teams. You are not going to see a frosh playing varsity unless he is capable of it.


Many of these schools do indeed have sports other than the major ones as well.


"Cost a side, why wouldn't any NH athlete do this? "

LOL, obviously if cost was not an issue, many would. The real question is more to do with what the kid wants to study in college and can they get into the school they want without prep. Those few that have the abilty to play a D1 sport, get a scholarship and be a big time contributor are unique and their situations really cant be compared to those heading to D3 where its about the academics and the athletics is the icing on the cake.

But seriously - it is a moot point since cost is THE issue. 35 years ago, one could work at decent paying job in the summer and earn close to if not all your in-state college costs (providing you had access to a job paying more the minimum and could get more than 40 hrs a week) Today even if you have a high paying internship, you cant even come close. It is not uncommon for kids attending the high end colleges today to come out with loans totaling the value of a small home. Far cry from the $1000 my wife owed or the $500 my college roomate owed. It simply is not possible to make the decisions today without factoring in the cost and the size of your family.

I have posted this here and on a few other sites in NH. While playing a sport in college is a wonderful thing, it is foolish to use that as the main factor in choosing a school. Injuries, new recruits, coaching changes, etc all can drastically alter any kids standing with a team after he gets there. Therefore you had better be sure you are there more for the education than for the sports.


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Re: Prep School?

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:37 pm

"Would it be such a bad thing for a kid to do a post-graduate year, improving both his academic resume and basketball skillset, and then get offered a basketball scholarship at a DII school such as Bentley or Stonehill, or be offered an opportunity to play at a DIII school such as Williams, Amherst, or Middlebury? Would that be a waste of an investment for that family, in your opinion, if the PG year was the only way for that kid to accomplish those goals, even if they are "DII or DIII"? DI is not the only answer, and very few NH-based kids have the potential to get there."

HoopsFan- If this were in a vaccuum you might have a point. Going to Bentley, or Stonehill only means something if you really want to study there. Also, there is no guarantee that your going to get a full scholarship, or that the overall financial package is going to be better just because you got some athletic scholarship money. Also look at the number of kids who do go D2 only to transfer down to D3 - Slew of them at Keene St this year - Ollie Hunter, Nicco Demasco, Ryan Martin From UMaine and a couple others I believe.

as far as the investment goes, as I stated - perhaps a simple choice if the player is an only child. Not so if he/she has siblings who also want to attend college.

"If you talked to recent NH kids, and their parents, who did PG years, such as Stoyle (Brandeis), Tsourangis (WPI), and Bayliss (Wheaton), I think they would tell you the extra PG year was one of the best decisions they've ever made."

Stoyle has done well as has Bayliss, but Tsougranis played in only a few games and left the team at WPI. I hope he did indeed make the correct choice in a college. Also, Jake Nelson was a big recruit for WPI this past year and did not make the roster, instead he transfered to Rivier and had a succesfull 2nd half of the season there. It is easy to miss to miss sometimes when we get a bit carried away trying to project these kids into college level programs, but there is much more to it than just playing the game.

On the first point, WPI's best player the past couple of years transfered there after barely playing at Stonehill as a freshman. Sticking with WPI, you only have to look to St Thomas's Matt Carr to see you can achieve all this without doing a PG year. He overcame an ACL that cost him his senior year in HS and became an Academic All-American (studying Chem Eng according to the release) and 1st team all conference. I remember some people here in the seacoast thought he should do a PG year to get ready for college ball. Seems to have worked out pretty good for him.

In support of your arguement, 2 of the major contributors to MITs sucess this year did a PG year here in NH at PEA. Mitchell Kates & Jamie Karracker were key to MIT making the NCAAs this year.

For some guys, it makes sense, for others it does not, there is no way to look at this in any way other than a case by case basis. To do otherwise is just foolish.



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Am I missing something?

Post  boxout on Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:40 pm

Once again I ask the question of what is a 13th year student taking for courses? You have already graduated HS, you have a diploma. Is one taking the same classes as HS? Are you really learning if you have already taken the course? What is the difference between going to Nashua Community College for a semester and transferring versus a year of PG?
I think some may have misinterpreted The Assistant; his point is if you are going to PG HS, and all you are getting into a DIII school for sports, it probably is a waste of money. There are no scholarships in DIII.
I understand that they have Freshman, JV, and Varsity teams at these schools, but why should an HS graduate get to play with non-HS graduates? Have most of these athletes not already had 4 years of eligibility?
As far as the Public Education versus the Private education, not sure what that means, there are both private and public kids going to these PG schools.
I also have to back Chi-Kid on this issue, he is right when he states that the financial aid and scholarships are probably pretty lenient. I use kids from other parts of the country as an example. If a kid is going to a public school in some big city, how can this family all the sudden come up with money to send child to a private school.
I apologize for making this a debate, it was the last thing on my mind. I am just trying to figure out the reasoning of Prep School versus a semester at a community college. If you graduate HS you can get into pretty much any CC.

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Re: Prep School?

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:15 pm

Hoop Fan wrote:
Would it be such a bad thing for a kid to do a post-graduate year, improving both his academic resume and basketball skillset, and then get offered a basketball scholarship at a DII school such as Bentley or Stonehill, or be offered an opportunity to play at a DIII school such as Williams, Amherst, or Middlebury? Would that be a waste of an investment for that family, in your opinion, if the PG year was the only way for that kid to accomplish those goals, even if they are "DII or DIII"? DI is not the only answer, and very few NH-based kids have the potential to get there.

If you talked to recent NH kids, and their parents, who did PG years, such as Stoyle (Brandeis), Tsourangis (WPI), and Bayliss (Wheaton), I think they would tell you the extra PG year was one of the best decisions they've ever made.

No I think it's GREAT that they do it. It is just surprising to me how many do. I also should have been a little more descriptive in my statement, I was talking about strictly from an athletics perspective. For educational reasons, if you have the money, it makes ALL the sense in the world to get into a better College. If your athletics can help you do that, then it also makes all the sense. Just surprises me every year how many kids end up doing it.

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Side Note

Post  chicagokid43 on Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:15 pm

I have to admit it sort of annoys me that Fasfa can be used to pay for a year of PREP school for some students. Should our tax money be paying for a student to do a post grad year? Many high school students go to school for 4 years and do all the hard work to be ready to go to college. Why should our tax money pay for a kid to go to an elite institution like a Brewster or New Hampton for an extra year because they took it easy in high school. There has to be some who agree that this is a little twisted. Especially of the student could qualify for Community college or even a local college. Should there not be a limit on years in high school in regards to Fasfa?

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Re: Prep School?

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:21 pm

boxout wrote:I apologize for making this a debate, it was the last thing on my mind. I am just trying to figure out the reasoning of Prep School versus a semester at a community college. If you graduate HS you can get into pretty much any CC.

Don't apologize, I think this is really interesting conversation that many of us and the lurkers (non-posters) on the site might learn a thing or two from.

It's a very interesting topic also b/c NH has some of the BEST Prep basketball programs in the country (Just ask Bobcat). For some it's the sports (not usually the ones coming from NH) for others its a chance to improve their work ethic, studies, and living environment. Lot of factors, and JT is 100% correct when he says you have to take it case by case. Every situation is unique. Every one.

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Well Stated Chi-kid

Post  boxout on Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:37 pm

I agree that tax payers should not be paying for this. The cost is outrageous. If these PG schools are so elite, how are athletes who have questionable grades to begin with getting in? Does anyone know what they take for classes? How many classes? If you passed Geometry in HS are you really taking that class over again? Of course you should get a better grade.

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Boxout

Post  chicagokid43 on Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:54 pm

We were told over the fall that many players do repeat classes to lay better groundwork for college courses that follow. However you do have to take a full schedule of courses. I know Tilton and Cushing both demanded that from any 5th year student. However you could repeat a course but the course that you use to help increase your GPA has to be a new course or at least a more advanced version of a course you have already taken.
Again this is absolutely a personal decision that has many factors. Not sure you can say there is a right or wrong decision unless money is not an object. If you have it or can get it paid for the extra year is only going to get you more prepared for college.

The great news about the Prep schools in the area is that many have no admission for there regular season games and there is plenty of great basketball to see if you are a hoop junky like me. I look forward to seeing next years PG players for another year.

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AM I wrong?

Post  boxout on Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:02 pm

Then to assume that these schools are only elite if you are in High School? It is not so elite if you are a 13th year student?

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Re: Prep School?

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:12 pm

"The great news about the Prep schools in the area is that many have no admission for there regular season games and there is plenty of great basketball to see if you are a hoop junky like me. I look forward to seeing next years PG players for another year. ."

ChiKid


So...... You will be gracing us with the privilige of your company next season? Twisted Evil



Just when I was looking forward to a quiet and more sedate 2011-2012 basketball season. Wink

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Re: Prep School?

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:15 pm

" think some may have misinterpreted The Assistant; his point is if you are going to PG HS, and all you are getting into a DIII school for sports, it probably is a waste of money. There are no scholarships in DIII. "

Not completely true. That year may indeed improve your ability to get more merit based scholarship money.

As far as the classes go for the PG year. - You should check the website of an institution. I would imagine the basic study areas are available and others as well. Again, this is all going to be a case by case basis. Simple web search will provide you with info such as this: The best way is to contact the school and ask what is avialable out of their course catalog for PGs.

http://www.tiltonschool.org/podium/default.aspx?t=103063

http://www.bridgtonacademy.org/admfaq.cfm (They actually offer classes that are tranferable as college credits to So. ME, UNE and Plymouth St. as well as a CAP program)

"As far as the Public Education versus the Private education, "

As with most things in life - you get what you pay for. No question the education in a private school is better quality than that of a public school.


" apologize for making this a debate, it was the last thing on my mind. I am just trying to figure out the reasoning of Prep School versus a semester at a community college. If you graduate HS you can get into pretty much any CC."

No real secret - Again - case by case - It is up to the parents to make the call on which route would work best for thier child and and family/financial situation. There is never going to be a simple clear cut answer to which way is best. No way to take the cost/reward factor out of it.





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NHJT if...

Post  boxout on Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:19 pm

Wow NHJT I am shocked at your disdain for public schools.
No where is stated that private education is better than public. I will use the recent Priest child molestation, you think those kids received a great education? They are messed up for life, hardly a great education.

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Re: Prep School?

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:29 pm

Not a disdain, just simple fact. Obviously there are exceptions to any rule.

Do you seriously think that the eduaction at a PEA, or even ST. Thomas is equal to that of a Portsmouth HS or Nashua North/South?


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Yes I do...

Post  boxout on Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:43 pm

HS public or private is all up to the student. Students get out of an education what they put in. Doesn't matter what type of school they attend. I personally think that both have downfalls.
Like I stated though there are kids who went to private HS that are actually going to a different 13th year school, so if I use common sense, these kids are not flourishing at these private HS. Or they would certainly be college ready.
I am still not getting the difference between going to a CC for a semester and then transferring, versus a 13th year of school? It seems to me that these schools that have a 13th year are strictly athletic related. I have yet to hear of a 4.0 kid going to these schools for a 13th year. If he plays sports yes, but I am once again talking non-athletes. Is the best 5th best Drummer in the state for band, going to Prep School so they can get a D1 or D2 education based on music? Are actors going for another year to get more experience?
So far what I have learned from asking is that this is strictly for athletics.
Chi-Kid I appreciate your personal opinion on this, seems you did research this for your son. As a matter of fact your son immediately came to mind on doing a year of Prep. But now Chi-Kid I have a question and maybe you know or don't. Let me say you take Geometry in HS pass it, then go to PG school and take Geometry, what is the difference? How can a PG be that much tougher? If I am reading things right, the 13th year is not a college Geometry course. I can do this for any subject or coarse. If you take History in HS what type of History are you learning at a PG school? Is it more detailed like at college?
Guys I understand and I have gone to the schools web site, none of the questions are answered. Of course like any school they are only telling you how great the school is they are not breaking things down. That is why I am asking outsiders.

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Do they recruit?

Post  boxout on Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:01 pm

I haven't even asked. So do they?

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Re: Prep School?

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:04 pm

boxout wrote:I haven't even asked. So do they?

You betcha.

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I am sorry guys...

Post  boxout on Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:06 pm

I keep having questions in my head. Are these kids idolized at these schools or kind of joked about among the younger peers? Idols because they are athletes, laughed because in a way they are repeating their Senior year or not ready for college.

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Re: Prep School?

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:07 pm

boxout wrote:I keep having questions in my head. Are these kids idolized at these schools or kind of joked about among the younger peers? Idols because they are athletes, laughed because in a way they are repeating their Senior year or not ready for college.

Is that a serious question? Lets not let this get ridiculous. This is a sports forum, you want to find our about 18-19 year old gossip go check out facebook.

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