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Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

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Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  chicagokid43 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:23 pm

So can anyone explain to me why this is not called correctly anymore. Seems more and more are getting away with the step right,step,left and jump without getting called. This is clearly a travel isn't it?

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Re: Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  EBlessNHSP on Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:02 pm

You clearly need to learn where to post now threads. If it's not NH HS Basketball related it goes in the Bleachers.

And to answer your question, no its not a travel, the NBA apparently plays under an entirely different set of rules then the rest of modern day basketball.

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They do these steps in NH too...

Post  chicagokid43 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:50 pm

They do Kobe steps in NH too, Don't you want to debate when the ball is in the players hands vs when he plants the first step? Or did you just decide that all european steps are the same?

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Re: Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:15 pm

Not relevant to NH HS ball at all. The issue with bad travel calls has nothing to with the "NBA steps". Much more to do with making calls they think they see versus what really happens & consistency of calls such as the player & ball on the floor.

Even in college, it is not called the same as the NBA. This is especially true in D3 & D2. We do see it allowed at times in D1 - but I dont think we have to worry to much about that.

By the way, this was an issue in the NBA long before the emergence of the Europeans. Remember how many of these Michael Jordan got away with?

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Re: Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  Guest on Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:37 pm

I've seen it done in NH so I wouldn't say it's not relevant...

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Re: Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:57 pm

bigman - I should have qualified that better.

It is not relevant because it is not as prevalent an issue as it is in the NBA. Travelling the is most common call made in HS. Granted, once in a great while a kid may get away with an extra step, but it is not common at all. It is certainly not something that the officials are consistently allowing players to get away with.

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The longer it goes

Post  chicagokid43 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:30 pm

The longer it goes the more it will happen. That was my point, I see it more and more and there does not seem to be any consistency with how it is called. Do the referees know that it isn't about the actual steps it is about when the ball is picked up? It seems that the referees look more at the footwork. This to me needs to be discussed before more players learn a move that may be called incorrectly.

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Re: Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:01 pm

Wow, love it when Mrs. ChiKid goes away for the weekend. Mr ChiKid has so much more time on his hands......to hit the keyboard and voraciously post new threads on the Forum.

You should've joined me and Mrs T & F for our whirl wind social excursion to all the Milford hot spots last night. Cool

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Re: Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  JAF on Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:53 pm

A rule change last year in/by the NBA to "legalize" two steps before the shot since everyone was doing it anyway.

As for NH - step up or sit back - it's not as easy as you make it seem and it's not always as obvious when there's 4 other things going on at the same time. The further away you are the easier it is to see, but referees are not positioned in the stands nor do they always have the benefit of a camera to count steps after the fact. I for one admit the travel call is one of the harder ones for me to make, but as a coach and a fan - I got 'em all! Laughing

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Re: Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:14 pm

"Do the referees know that it isn't about the actual steps it is about when the ball is picked up? It seems that the referees look more at the footwork. This to me needs to be discussed before more players learn a move that may be called incorrectly. "

Truthfully, there are many things on the radar that we need to see get more attention/better consistency when it comes to officiating, the "extra step" is not very high on the list.

As far as "learning moves" goes, there are many more fundamental things to focus on than worrying about learning moves based on the extra step. Defensive footwork, defending without putting both hands on the offensive player, proper closeout technique, ablity to properly use the correct hand on the respective side of the basket, properly cutting off a screen, footwork on screen & seal, boxing out, etc.

This issue is something that going to affect an extremely small percentage of the players in the state as well as an extemely small number of plays in a game. While I do not disagree that there are calls on this missed from time-to-time, it is not bigger than blown charge calls, incorrect over the backs, incorrect block/holding fouls on plays that are not drives to the rim, hacks that allowed and consistency from the opening tip to the final buzzer. While it can make fun fodder for discussion here, it simply is not something that is effecting the game or player development as the other issues. To suggest so makes as much sense as saying adding a sot will lead to more zone defenses.




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The move is something that is being taught now

Post  chicagokid43 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:33 pm

The move is something that is obviously being taught and copied more often. Before this year it was a rare move but now many players are using it. I think many times the referees see and get these calls wrong early and then there is an adjustment period. I was trying to get opinions on it and spread the word at the same time. Nevermind it must not be an issue.

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Re: Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:11 pm

"This to me needs to be discussed before more players learn a move that may be called incorrectly. "

"I was trying to get opinions on it and spread the word at the same time."

From what I have seen at both the HS & college levels, it simply is not a big issue. I have seen players try it, yes and I have seen the officials make the call correctly much more than I see them call the charge play correctly. I have not seen an abundance of plays where someone is "getting away with it".

Unless you are talking about the top level of players, I would say the times you see it is more often unintentional than it is a conscious effort to "bend the rule". Now, if it is the top level players, I guess the question would be who is teaching the move? Would they be learning in AAU, at a camp...etc? Or...are you sugesting they are learning it from TV?


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My Guess is AAU and Trainers/Camps

Post  chicagokid43 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:17 pm

My guess is AAU and Camps are endorsing it. As well as players immolating it. I have had two players this year get called for travel and had them ask me if it was a travel. I have actually looked at the move on tape and had a very different opinion once than what I thought live. With so many referees on these pages I am very curious if they are looking at the feet and missing when the dribble is actually picked up. With the movement of the legs being exaggerated it would be easy to do so. If you do that it can really look like three steps. Just thought we could discuss how the whistles see it.

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Re: Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  EBlessNHSP on Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:08 am

So is this a travel?


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Re: Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:42 am

If Central, Memorial, Exeter or Pembroke was on the uniform it would be a travel.

When Celtics, Lakers, Pistons or Spurs is on the uniform it is not because the NBA is entertainment as opposed to basketball.


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Re: Kobe Steps, Manu Steps, European Steps?

Post  EBlessNHSP on Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:03 am

Tuesday and Friday wrote:

When Celtics, Lakers, Pistons or Spurs is on the uniform it is not because the NBA is entertainment as opposed to basketball.


Exxxxactly.

It's highly doubtful that camps, aau programs, coaches etc are endorsing a "move" that is currently illegal by most basketball standards. You notice many of those players in the NBA (Duncan, Howard, etc.) develop that move once they get to the professional ranks. If there are AAU programs or camps out there endorsing any "move" that's against the rules I might suggest pulling your kid from the program and not supporting an enterprise that is teaching kids to play the game outside of the written rules.

I would never dream of teaching a player a move where it was left in the (capable) hands of a referee. I mean, if you get an official who's going to call it, and that's the kids "go to" move, you're screwed the entire game.

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