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Be Careful Gary..

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Be Careful Gary..

Post  boxout on Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:48 am

Fitz. He has written a story about how the NHCBO got it wrong for POY in both DI and DII. Here is hoping that those parents are not PMing or emailing and trying to intimidate Gary. Gary also threw some stats out there, interestingly enough, he had stats for all the players not just one player to make his point. I do question all stats in NH, however they are ABOUT right. Gary did fall short in his thoughts on POY, he never mentioned career statistics for any player, and never mentioned how dominate they were in AAU.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/sportshighschoolsports/913686-221/coaches-wrong-on-multiple-mvp-picks.html

Gary never mentioned any of the parents be asking to leave the gym during their child's game.



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Re: Be Careful Gary..

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:20 pm

"he never mentioned career statistics for any player, and never mentioned how dominate they were in AAU. "

Not Relevant at all High School POY award. I believe we have covered this already.

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You are right..

Post  boxout on Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:25 pm

JT I was being facetious, nice post last night on shot clocks and defenses. You expressed yourself much better than I did, I applaud you and thank you for not letting me think I am on an island on this subject. The Assistant did well as well.

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Gary Fitz Article

Post  chicagokid43 on Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:52 pm

Gary makes some nice points in his article on POY. I agree with a lot of it. I was in a strange situation this year as my favorite for POY did not play great in the playoffs and my last years favorite played tremendous. So I do think that if I had picked it before the playoffs I would have selected player A but if I selected after the playoffs I would have taken player B. However I watch one team all year do my thoughts are tainted to say the least. D2 is so weird scheduling wise there will always be an argument.

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Re: Be Careful Gary..

Post  JAF on Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:41 pm

Just like the pros - there's always a bit of controversy about awards when coaches/media votes. I heard for D1 this year 3 players tied for 1st place, the tie was broken by the number of votes given to 1st team - 2 of the 3 players were totally omitted from first team ballot. If the ballots were made public, I think you'd have a different PoY in D1... Anyway, everyone's view of what makes a PoY candidate differs. I do agree the voting should be done later though - if not after the championship game, perhaps in the days between the semis and finals. The good news is kids like Mike and Connor don't "need" the award to prove how good they are.

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Re: Be Careful Gary..

Post  Guest on Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:51 pm

I agree with most of your post JAF. The only thing is I think that there should be a regular season POY/1st/2nd/HM, then there should be an all-tourny team and Tourny MVP rather than waiting til the playoffs are done and having one team.

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Re: Be Careful Gary..

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:30 pm

bigman - I agree - Currently the POY/All-state is voted on before the play-offs - as it should be. That ensures equal opportunity for standout players on weaker teams to be considered. It would make perfect sense to add and All-Tournament Team & Tournament MVP.

boxout, TY & My appologies for not catching the tone of your post correctly.

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Re: Be Careful Gary..

Post  Guest on Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:40 pm

Not Only does it give standout players on mediocre teams a chance it also prevents this from happening.

Player A dominates the regular season, averages 23ppg dishes out numerous assists, and leads his team to a 3 seed and there is no one even close to him in POY race.

Player B is a well known player and looked like a pre-season POY canidate and he has an average season we'll say he averages 10 ppg not much else, just not the season people expected. Due to his up and down play his team isn't as consistant as people thought and they draw a 10 seed.

Now it's playoff time, Player A and his team beat there first round opponent but not by as much as everyone expected and he had a solid game but didn't put up the numbers he had in the regular season. Quarterfinal game they get upset and Player A struggles badly.

Player B turns it on, he puts the team on his back Puts up 22ppg and 10 rpg in the playoffs and they make a "cinderalla" run through the tournament to the ship and win.

Player A did it throughout the grind of the 16 game regular season, but because Player B was a well known player and put together a great stretch of play over 4 games voters may be swayed to vote for him and I think that it'd be likely that Player B wins POY despite only putting a 4 game stretch together when the POY is suppose to include the regular season.

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Re: Be Careful Gary..

Post  EBlessNHSP on Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:54 pm

BigMan sounds like a little bit of what happened in DIV this year.

Adrian Edgerly was the clear POY as chosen by the NHCBO and other accounts. While Jake Clement had a great year, some sources are calling him the POY. Edgerly carried Newmarket to a great season (although they did not win it all) despite being focused on defensively by the opposing team night in and night out. The NHCBO got this one right.

Just because a player takes his team to the Championship does not make him the season POY, it makes him the Tournament MVP.

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Re: Be Careful Gary..

Post  JAF on Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:12 am

More awards, more controversy, lets give everyone an award and call it a season (that's satire just in case...). I understand where some are coming from, but just because you lead your team during the regular season doesn't mean as much when there's a chance that you didn't play every team and perhaps the better teams. In order to be considered a PoY you should not only be good in the regular season, but also be able to perform under the pressure of playoffs. The playoffs are part of the Year for the sport - they should be included. Someone coming out of the weeds or coming back from injury to lead his/her team in the playoffs is exemplary, but any coach that's paying attention or that has a clue wouldn't be that swayed by (at most) 4 playoff games. A strong player on a weak team will obviously stand out and sure consider them, but if they're that good and the team is that bad - then a better team playing them will shut down that player. If no one can shut the player down, then that should be considered, but I'll contend that case would be pretty rare. If you have an unstoppable player on your team - you're probably good enough to make playoffs.

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Re: Be Careful Gary..

Post  Guest on Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:42 am

By having a Tourney MVP/All-Tourny Team we're now getting into giving everyone award? It's One more award for 5 kids and it's completely different than POY/1st team. You act like I'm saying treat it like youth sports and just hand out trophy's for participating.


Last edited by bigman44 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total

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I like the idea

Post  chicagokid43 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:44 am

I like the idea of All tourney teams and POY. It is done in Indiana there for it has to be correct. Award the guys that get on the big stage and elevate their team.
Good idea!

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Re: Be Careful Gary..

Post  JAF on Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:21 am


bigman44 - did you miss my satire comment? I really wasn't being serious. If the question is should PoY include playoffs, then yes, I agree with that - sometimes you have 2 or 3 individuals that are very close, but being able to evaluate and vote based not only on how they did in the regular season, but the playoffs as well should go towards determining if they are the PoY for their division. We can disagree on this point. If the question is should there be another award for playoff MVP and the first team in the playoffs - that's fine. I'm not against it, although I think it'll be just as controversial. First of all - who votes? Media? Coaches? Parents? The main problem I see is "most" will not have been able to make it to or see on tape every round 1 and round 2 game. They may only see a player in the semis and finals and make their choice based solely on the performance of two games. There will be those that say that isn't fair/right. For some reason I do have a faint recollection that the NHIAA used to do tourney mvp/first team, but that could be way back when the last 3 rounds of the tourney were at UNH/SNHU/PlyState.

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