Players Taunting and Cursing

Watching the NBA and college games of late I am seeing much more screaming,cursing and even trash talk and taunting happening than in the past. I cannot remember the last time I seen a player get a T for taunting or for screaming profanity. Why are referees allowing this now days and why have the coaches not gotten this under control from their players. Players talking to fans, fans trying to embarrass a player and coaches out of the coaching box seem to be just another one of my complaints with the way the game is called. Are the young fans in the stadiums and gyms not worthy of our respect anymore?

I have noticed more players cursing after being called for foul, or a foul not being called on the offensive end!
Then when they are heading to the bench they are still cursing!

You can bet a player that does that in the game does it in practice also. So it starts there but I truly think that referees hear it now and do not call the players for it.

Chikid - Interesting subject matter.

Should Holder have been T'd for his taunting and shove of an OR player Friday night after he was called for a foul on a block attempt ?

I seen a couple of times where technicals could have been called on both sides. I am not sure which one you are talking about but there was some issues on both sides that could have been called. I thought Milford was numb and unemotional at first but on the run where Oyster River stretched the lead out they did some talking and then Milford matched it. I did not hear any cursing but I was right in front of the screaming Super fans!

From what i read it seems Holder should have recieved the game ball or at least a free dinner on the way home for saving Milfords undefeated season. Why what happened to warrant a technical for Holder? I wouldn't blame Holder for being fired up against Oster River they have a couple guys that talk trash and play cheap at times. I saw them go up against Bedford in the first game and they were like that in that game too.

It was in 2nd half and would have been right in front you. I am pretty sure the foul was called on him, but it was his actions afterwards that warranted the "T". He was jawing with a player and then shoved one. Very uncomposed. I did not see any OR players getting into Milford players faces and jawwing away. Goodwin was fired up and his mouth was going & fist pumping, but he was not aiming comments at individuals. Looked to me like a kid fired up on the prospect of his team pulling an upset.

Milford did do a good job with the opportunities presented to them in the last 4 minutes, but this much more of a case of OR losing the game than Milford winning it. Very poor decisions by OR, shooting jump shots when there was no need to shoot at all. Moving the ball right into trap positions Vs keeping it in the open floor areas, etc

Basketballen - I have no doubt these kids are doing some trash talking. What I am talking about is getting intot he face of anothe rplayer and pushing a player during a deadball. I am sure if Chikid has his video available, he will eventually figure out what i am talking about. It was unwarranted, and I think he was not called because the offical that made the call under the hoop was headed to the table to make the call. The outside official was moving to the baseline and may not have seen it. Again, Chikids video can tell that as well.

This was the second time I have seen OR this year, and I did not see any outlandish behavior in the other game. There is always going to be trash talking. It is this other stuff that needs to be curtailed.

Chikid - As far as the NBA goes, there was a mention of this in the Cltics/Lakers game today. Technicals are up 34% this year. Primarily due to the new actions of calling "T"s on all the whining and complaining, etc. I believe I saw a double "T" called today on Bosh & Durrant in the early game beacuse they were jawwing at each face-to-face.

Did not film the game. I have not filmed in a few weeks. I am not going to point out individual players for instances on here it gets nothing accomplished. Milford had a bad stretch a while back for getting technicals and talking way to much. I think Oyster River gave Milford a gift no doubt. I also think Milford stole a win from Oyster River. Both teams had to do certain things to win. Milford forced many traps and bad passes and shot the ball at a unbelievable percentage in the fourth quarter. Jamie and Mikey were a combined 15 for 19 from the floor and scored 21 points between the two of them to steal the game. Did Oyster River make mistakes? Sure but did Milford spot them a lead playing bad also... sure. Milford was 2 for 10 from the foul line in the first half and gave up some real silly fouls in the second sending Oyster River to the line way to often. It was a great game and I do not want to taint the win or the nice game by Oyster River.
My complaint remains that language and taunting is not needed in this game and I think if you direct any of your words or physical acts on another player it should be addressed by the officials.

My issue with the NBA is the a four letter word that is screamed by half the league when they make a bad play. I am sick of seeing and hearing the word on TV and I do not care if it is not directed at anyone and is done out of frustration. Kids in the stands look up to these players and should be protected by that sort of foul language.

I agree with your last sentence, but if you bring up this kind of topic, it by defintion brings individuals into the conversation. Real world examples are more appropriate to discuss than theoretical Player A & B. Truthfully, I had not given that situation any thought since it occured until you brought up the topic. It was then natural to ask you how you felt about a player you obviously know very well who acted in such a manner. It is not a negative to point these things out if we see players acting this way if we agree that such behavior needs to be stopped. High school athletics is not just about game balls and headlines, it is also about learning life lessons and as in real life, people will point out when you are doing things that are not appropriate. I beleive that was your point by starting this thread - That is kind of behavior should not be tolerated and need to be removed from the game.

My point about OR losing the game was not meant as a taint at all. It was my observation - They made poor choices. All of Milfords opportunities to score in that stretch did not come from their defense. There were at least 3 possesions where OR shot very early at a time they should have worked clock and forced Milford to foul. There were others were OR moved the ball right into the teeth of the trap.

I agree with you on the profanity - but we are also talking about grown men who are making their living at the game. There will always be plays that will get guys to swear. I love KG and the way he plays the game, but I am really more than fed up with all the extra antics and mouth running. If you feel you took a cheap shot, we all know these guys are going pop off. They do not need to do it at every whistle.

So we are asking too much of grown men to do what we demand from our children? That is a new one. i thought we held our adults to a higher standard than we do our children. I despise KG, I think he is a great player but like the punch to the groin the other day proves he is willing to cheat to win. If you celebrate that type of behavior with adults it is only expected that the next game you see a teenager will do the same. I say hold the NBA players to a higher standard and that would trickle down to our youth.

I just got off the phone with a milford parent and he confirmed the play your talking about but saw the whole thing not just the push from Holder. Oster Rivers player came up and bumped into holder intentionally after the play was over and Holder pushed him back and he also recalled a play where the big from oyster river who was covering Mike O'laughlin elbowed him in the throat along the same sideline as the fans. You didn't mention that one JT? Maybe it's on the video? And like i said earlier when i saw the Bedford game it was the same three from Oyster River talking trash and cheap shotting and i do have the video to that one.lol

I forgot to mention he also said Milford did not press on defense or fastbreak at all in the first half and wasn't even close to playing typical Milford basketball. So i wouldn't get to hyped up about Oyster River JT. The way it sounds to me if they were really up by 17 and one player in Holder pretty much won the game for Milford in the last Quarter then i guess Oyster River was lucky they didn't have to face a whole four quarters of all their big three playing well the whole game.

Basketballen - I am not an OR supporter, I have no kids in high school anymore. You were not at the game, as you already stated. If you want to get into details of the play, holder was out of control on the block and there was a lot of body contact between 3 or 4 players. After the play as the players were breaking up and heading to the lane for the free throws, Holder was in the kids face, and then shoved him. I did not see any player intentionally get in holders face.

I did not say that the OR team did not do anything wrong during the game, I told you what I saw. My comment about the video from Chikid was because as anyone who read these blogs over the past couple of years knows - he tapes all the games. I dont blame him on that at all. It is a great keepsake for him and for his son as he grows older.

As far as Holder winning the game on his own - LOL, well AS I said, I was there, you were not. Chikids son and O'Laughlin made a few plays along the way. I am not "hyping" any team, my point was very simple. Given the lead, the time left, and the knowledge of how explosive Milford can be, it was foolish to shoot open 15 foot jumpers when you did not need to. There were more than a few OR parents near me saying the same thing...LOL

I'm just repeating what i was told and so it looks like you didn't see what caused Holder to push back oh well it also sounds like you didn't see Mike O get elbowed in the throat deliberately while other people did? So i guess your right Chikid doesn't have it on video shame. Your point about Oyster River fans is well taken but my point was if Milford with one kid plus a little help with Mikey and Mike can come back by playing more of their up tempo defense and Offense type game then wouldn't you agree that Oyster River was very lucky they didn't play that way the whole game? Which by the way could also be considered very foolish as you put it on Milford's part.

I have to admit that Oyster River played very well. I talked with coach Mitchell yesterday and told him he outplayed Milford for 30 minutes and had he had a timeout left they would have won. However, Milford is real sloppy at this time with two starters banged up and only one practice this week with two very ugly games earlier in the week. I hoped they would throw together a practice this weekend to try to get a little more crisp before the next two games. Stark comes in on Tuesday and while they do not have the best record they have some solid players and a good coach that could cause similar issues. I hope to see a more frantic pace and more energy in the first half on Tuesday.

"it also sounds like you didn't see Mike O get elbowed in the throat deliberately while other people did? "

LOL, sorry, but as good as he is, I came to watch the game, not just focus on one player for 32 minutes. Did this occur while he was bringing up the ball? I did not hear any of the milford parents holle rout about it. Not saying it took place, just that it is rather foolish to assume anyone viewing the game as a whole would see that. Especially if the ball was not close. The Holder play was on the ball, so it many people did see it and did comment. I guess we have hashed this out enough.

"my point was if Milford with one kid plus a little help with Mikey and Mike can come back by playing more of their up tempo defense and Offense type game then wouldn't you agree that Oyster River was very lucky they didn't play that way the whole game?"

LOL, if you want to play point-counterpoint, the obvious reply would be why didn't they play that way from the start? Answer - As good as they are, they are still just 17/18 yr olds with a lot to learn. If you are a Milford fan, you hope they learned they need to play better from start to finish in every game. They managed to pull out a win.

As I stated, I have no stake in the outcome at all. My observations are neutral. I'm guessing most of the Milford folks were not planning on the comeback, until they saw how OR was starting to crumble. As Chikid as told you, a timeout, or as I said, better decisions and the outcome is different. That is the way it is in every close game decided by a single possesion.

I was in CT this afternoon and watched the #15 ranked team in D3 blow a 26 pt lead on its own court to a sub .500 club. West. Conn. College won by a point when a buzzer-beater 3 was ruled a 2. WCC let them back in with poor play and choices and they were by far the better team. This happens at all levels.

The O'laughlin incedent occured with only two players like i mentioned earlier and it happened on the sideline around mid court by the fans, so i would assume unless you were texting or legally blind or sneezing your would have seen the play. But my point was the parent told me the ref's were not controlling the game enough and it no suprise there and it got a little chippy and it was same thing in the Bedford game as well. As far as a comeback i doubt the Milford fans even 17 down were thinking they could never come back and i guess they proved you wrong on that one. I have seen Milford play enough to see the type of talent they have and by far they have three players that should dominate anyone one Oyster river so do i think it was Oyster River crumbling as you put it? No i don't quite honestly, in fact I'M sure it had nothing to do with it. What it had to do with is Milford turning it on and beating Oyster River in their own gym and doing it with much better talent. It's not the first time i've heard or seen them decide to win a game and explode into a different level of basketball and i doubt it will be the last. Your example of the two d3 college teams was a poor example only because the best team in Milford was playing poorly but had the players to come back and win and did. Plus i doubt that the number one ranked d3 college team would have lost that game lol.

"The O'laughlin incedent occured with only two players like i mentioned earlier and it happened on the sideline around mid court by the fans, so i would assume unless you were texting or legally blind or sneezing your would have seen the play.'

LOL, sorry if if my observations have upset your view of the NH basketball world, but as I said, I do not focus on just a particular player for 32 minutes. I may have actually turned my head a made a comment to the friend I attended the game with or may have been following the ball at that moment. I assume from your comments that you must have phenominal vision and the ability to focus on multiple objects on the court instantaneously and for the entire 32 minutes - LOL.

As far as your claim it was just Milford flipping a switch, well again you were not there and you obviously have a bias. I went to watch a couple of good teams and stand neutral in my observations. On this point we will just have to agree to disagree.

"Your example of the two d3 college teams was a poor example only because the best team in Milford was playing poorly but had the players to come back and win and did. Plus i doubt that the number one ranked d3 college team would have lost that game lol."

My point on bringing up the college game apparent went right by you. If you are a high end team - you don't lose a 26 pt lead unless you play poorly and open the door for the other team. Even the best teams (at all levels) have days were they get outplayed, sometimes for a portion of the game, sometimes for thwe whole game. Some days they managed to do enough to win, sometimes they dont. It not always about one team, there are games where is more about what the opponent does than what your team does or does not do. If you followed the college game at all you would know that there many of the top teams in the country that lose to unranked teams every year. #3 Duke got slammed yesterday by an unranked St. John's team that was 11-8 entering the game. With your view, If Duke had come back to win, it would have been all about Duke and nothing about St. Johns. No credit to anything St. Johns did to build a lead, just the fact that Duke played bad and then snapped a switch. I mean a team just a couple of games over .500 should not have been able to compete with a team like Duke. To quote an old sage - "That is why we play the games!"

Chikid - back to your point on the cursing.

I was talking with a buddy this morning and he tells me some of the college summer leagues around the country are begining to put up some serious fines for language. Not all of them, but according to him there is a trend moving in the right direction.

Did you see anything like this in your recent experiences with the leagues your son played in ?

Nothing that sticks out in my mind. I am not a fan of the scream after you make a layup or open jumper. I like emotion in a game but hate the look at me I am screaming routine. I think if a play is a great play you do not need to market it.. lol

There is always going to be some talking and I do think trash talk that isn't in your face is part of the game. I am from the city where you talked trash,played one on one,talked more trash and did it again. Nothing wrong with telling a guy he can't guard you, but once the game is over know when to turn it off. My son claps when he is making plays.. I think this could be looked at as taunting to a defender who is frustrated some times so I have talked to him and told him the same thing. Know when the game is decided and when to turn it off. You do not have to win and embarrass your opponent as well.
When I coached many of these boys on Milford in the past we always had a rule that we act as if we expected to win. You do not celebrate and taunt your opponent. I thought it was very funny that after last years Portsmouth game which we all know was a incredible emotional game many of the Milford boys were very sustained and immediately respectful of the players from Portsmouth. That is how I think the game should always end. With respect and dignity for your opponent. Of course when you win a title or a championship it is a little different but during the regular season to me you win and do it with respect and class.
I think College football does a nice job of keeping players from being over celebratory after a play. I know sometimes they go overboard and throw a unneeded flag. But I would much rather have it that way than like the NFL where a receiver can score a TD down 30 and dance..

Yes, the phase, "Act Like you have been there", leaps to mind. I have more respect for the guy who scores and then hands the ball to ref rather than go into a spike & dance show.

In football the worst offenders are those who make a nice hit, and then beat their own chest and make a big deal of the fundamental play that they are paid big $$$ to make. Even better is the guy who makes a big a deal of a play he made while his team down 21 points midway through the 4th qtr. Get your butt back to the huddle and get ready for the next play!