@nhsportspage Twitter Feed
Top posting users this month


Suspensions and Basketball

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Suspensions and Basketball

Post  chicagokid43 on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:13 pm

I want to put something out to you guys and see how you feel about it.

Right now many schools are suspending players for activities outside of school and I do not get it. Since when is it up to the schools to parent a child while they are somewhere else. Do not get me wrong if a player does something at the school or involving someone from the school I say it falls in their court. If a player does something and the school suspends him for it let the suspension for hoops be the same as the suspension from school. I feel like we are punishing players twice and if you really think about it we punish them harder than we do the student that is not involved in an activity. I realize sports is not owed to the players but I do think we are absolutely being harder on them then we are other students. Does anyone agree with me at all or am I alone on the sinking ship here as well?

chicagokid43
Player of the Year
Player of the Year

Posts : 853
Join date : 2009-12-17
Age : 47
Location : Milford

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Tulliver on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:23 pm

School leaders are held to higher standards as representing a school is a privilege and responsibility.

I don't think it's about parenting a child as much as it is that student leaders are expected to demonstrate good character which does not include breaking laws or other behaviors. In addition, I believe student athletes are aware of a school's code of conduct and athletic conduct agreement BEFORE they try out for the team. If you know the rules and break them, then you take the consequences.

HS sports are a piece of what school is about. School is about developing people into educated citizens. Frankly, that is usually included in most mission statements. Citizenship involves following the rules of our society and the laws set forth.


Tulliver
Moderator

Posts : 531
Join date : 2009-04-05

Back to top Go down

Why the higher standard?

Post  chicagokid43 on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:33 pm

I guess that is what I do not get? Why are we treating athletes different? Why is more expected of an athlete vs a student? I mean we already require more of them with the schedule and routine. Is it really needed to punish them athletically as well as educationally? Are schools consistent?
Does a band student, culinary or even a student council member get the same double punishment? I do not know I am asking? I guess if the case is the same for athletes and all other special interest it is fair.

chicagokid43
Player of the Year
Player of the Year

Posts : 853
Join date : 2009-12-17
Age : 47
Location : Milford

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:36 pm

I totally agree with Tully. 100 %

Yes, ChiKid you are on a sinking ship. I don't know if you are alone, but the ship could be rather empty.

Tuesday and Friday
Moderator

Posts : 3866
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Tulliver on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:38 pm

Yes, they should be penalized as such and are for the most part.

Band possibly not if they get credit through a class.

But yes, school officers, student council members etc are expected to abide by the same rules as athletes UNLESS an athletic comm of a school board publishes separate policies. However, there are academic expectations and behavior expectations for all student leaders. It's not about punishing but preparing for life.

AND school are represented by these students and have a right to set expectations that promote the mission and goals of the school. Putting on a uniform is a privilege... wearing school colors is a privilege. That student has been selected to represent the entire school not just his or her self.

Tulliver
Moderator

Posts : 531
Join date : 2009-04-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:40 pm

ChiKid - Are you really trying to make the point that HS Athletes are being discriminated against after THEY break the rules?

It all depends on the Student Athlete contract - if the school has them (most if not all do). I'm sure each districts is worded differently, and the punishment is typically at the discretion of the school administration (principle/AD/Coaches, etc.).

I'm confident our School Administrators do what they feel is right, that the punishment fits the crime. These kids need to be made examples of. We should not be doing it like the NCAA does - letting kids play when they've broken rules (Ohio State players).

_________________
NH Sports Forum Administrator
avatar
EBlessNHSP
Admin

Posts : 1705
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 37
Location : Fremont, NH

http://nhsportspage.com/index.php

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:44 pm

Totally agree with Tully again 100 %.

The sinking ship that ChiKid is on now has Kate Winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio hanging on to the stern railing.

Tuesday and Friday
Moderator

Posts : 3866
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Tulliver on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:45 pm

And it isn't about punishment as much as it is about helping kids grow up to be healthy adults.

Especially in regards to alcohol or drugs. The brain doesn't fully develop until 25. Do you know how much damage is done by the amount of drinking and drugs some kids do and use? I know kids that only clean up for basketball or football season. That's a portion of the year that the kid is treating his or her body with respect and you know what??? They do better academically during that time.

If behaving to be part of a team is a carrot that urges a kid to live life with control then GOOD. The better we prepare them for life the more we're doing the job entrusted to us.


Last edited by Tulliver on Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total

Tulliver
Moderator

Posts : 531
Join date : 2009-04-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:45 pm

Yea something tells me Tully knows a bit more about how this really works than most of us.


_________________
NH Sports Forum Administrator
avatar
EBlessNHSP
Admin

Posts : 1705
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 37
Location : Fremont, NH

http://nhsportspage.com/index.php

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  EBlessNHSP on Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:02 am

Well stated Tully - absolutely 100% correct and I'm in complete agreement. That's if for me tonight forumites, ChiKid, I hope you packed your swimmies.

_________________
NH Sports Forum Administrator
avatar
EBlessNHSP
Admin

Posts : 1705
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 37
Location : Fremont, NH

http://nhsportspage.com/index.php

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:05 am

Nothing from ChiKid for the last half hour.

Is Kate Winslet holding on to ChiKid and the door he's floating on waiting for the arrival of the Carpathia?

Tuesday and Friday
Moderator

Posts : 3866
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  nhhoopguy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:24 am

I feel it is privilege and an honor to play/be chosen for any team,student council etc.
The student /athlete should abide by any rules that are presented to them.

nhhoopguy
Varsity
Varsity

Posts : 76
Join date : 2009-11-23

Back to top Go down

Good one T and F..

Post  chicagokid43 on Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:29 am

Actually like a suspension marriage has two punishments also.. dishes and the garbage pick up which was the reason for my 30 minute downtime.
I guess my feelings are a little more let the punishment fit the crime and equal sentencing. Isn't this in a way the exact opposite of what use to happen? There was a time when a athlete was forgiven of many of these situations because he was an athlete. Now he is treated with even harsher penalties. Is it possible that treating any two students differently is actually more in accordance with how the country bases it's legal system?

chicagokid43
Player of the Year
Player of the Year

Posts : 853
Join date : 2009-12-17
Age : 47
Location : Milford

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Tulliver on Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:55 am

He is treated harsher because his actions have affected the school he represents.

AND he has agreed to abide by those rules in order to represent that school.

If we keep lowering the bar of expectations for kids we are dooming them.

The policies set forth by school districts are voted upon and put in place by the school boards elected. As such, they represent the values of the community and actually have to relate to the mission of the district and school. All schools are primarily concerned with providing safe environments and as such have zero tolerance policies on alcohol and drugs. Let's also remember that convictions involving drugs can preclude students from scholarships and financial aid opportunities. The more that we build in consequences for students to teach them the dangers and consequences (physical and societal) the more we are doing right by them.

We have drug counselors in schools now because we have kids who are addicted by the ages of 13 and lower. Think about that. Just think about the mental development that will not occur as a result of those choices. Think about the physical damage.
Substance abuse is a very frightening epidemic in our schools. Compound that with kids posting pictures on facebook of them drinking and drugging. There are companies now that employ people to do social media searches on applicants. Those pictures can preclude kids from employment opportunities later.

If a few games of suspensions teaches them a lesson then it's probably a lesson they should have already learned. Luckily they're alive to learn that lesson. Walk into a school one day when kids are learning their friend died the night before due to driving while drunk, or that their friend killed someone while driving under the influence. Moments like those have kicked me in the gut harder than anything.

A few game suspension is a small price to pay if it teaches a kid to make responsible choice and to fulfill his or her commitment to a team and school.

Tulliver
Moderator

Posts : 531
Join date : 2009-04-05

Back to top Go down

Few Games..

Post  chicagokid43 on Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:25 am

I am not arguing that a few games is unfair. I am saying that something like termination from a sport is. I have no issue with the suspension of a student athlete for whatever it would be for a average student. Then maybe a extra week or so for the sport or activity. But some schools go a half year and even others that think termination for that season is appropriate. I just think that is a little severe and almost a double punishment. I mean a full year for one event to me may be extreme unless of course there are really extenuating circumstances.

chicagokid43
Player of the Year
Player of the Year

Posts : 853
Join date : 2009-12-17
Age : 47
Location : Milford

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  nhhoopguy on Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:56 am


I think an athlete today would look at things differently if upfront they knew if they were caught, that the season would be over.
It does seem each year more players are being suspended than ever before.

nhhoopguy
Varsity
Varsity

Posts : 76
Join date : 2009-11-23

Back to top Go down

They do sign contracts before the season

Post  chicagokid43 on Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:43 am

In Milford they sign a agreement. They do know ahead of time what the penalty is but many schools have different rules. Seems some schools will bargain with a player and others stand their ground also.

chicagokid43
Player of the Year
Player of the Year

Posts : 853
Join date : 2009-12-17
Age : 47
Location : Milford

Back to top Go down

WHY CAN'T THE NHIAA HAVE RULES ADDRESSING THESE ISSUES?

Post  GNG on Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:06 am

This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time.A kid gets caught with drugs at campbell,or merrimack and it's 2 weeks off.A kid gets caught with drugs at BG and it's 1 year.There should be a uniform penalty for every school.Personally,I feel 2 weeks is too little,and 1 year is too much.I feel the same way about grades,flunking kids get special waivers at some schools.

GNG
All-American
All-American

Posts : 1448
Join date : 2010-11-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Tulliver on Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:19 am

One policy would mean it was the NHIAA's and they don't have the personnel or interest in enforcing policies.

Plus, schools reserve the right to set stricter standards based on what their community members want or see as needs for the school.

If a school loses a student to death involving drugs or alcohol they will NOT loosen standards because of the NHIAA.

Also, sometimes penalties are tied to the number of offenses the student has.

Be careful about wishing for the NHIAA to start setting umbrella policies... you might not like it if it happened.

Tulliver
Moderator

Posts : 531
Join date : 2009-04-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Tulliver on Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:22 am

chicagokid43 wrote:In Milford they sign a agreement. They do know ahead of time what the penalty is but many schools have different rules. Seems some schools will bargain with a player and others stand their ground also.



I don't think we can assume that a school will bargain with a player. That's a HUGE assumption to make. It might be tied to the number of offenses. Certain districts the penalty increases with numbers of infractions.

Regardless, a student's discipline situation is confidential and cannot be released under FERPA laws so schools cannot and will not respond to such inquiries. However, reading policies from different schools will show you their differences. However, remember those policies are set by the COMMUNITIES the school serves and most of those schools do not and should not answer to you or me as we are not members of their community.

Tulliver
Moderator

Posts : 531
Join date : 2009-04-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:25 am

The NHIAA has enough on their docket. You can't expect them to come out with a uniform policy for suspensions with athletes on conduct in or away from school. I hit the NHIAA as hard as anyone when it comes to scheduling and other issues that seem to crop up, but leaving the suspension issue to the individual school districts or the schools makes sense. Does it make sense when one player receives 2 weeks and a player at another school receives 2 months for the exact same infraction? Probably not, but the NHIAA will never get involved with this issue. Now, if a player strikes another player on the court then the NHIAA has jurisdiction over that and they have policies and protocol to deal with a situation like that.

It does seem more and more players are receiving suspensions these days. You could give reasons such as parental eroding over the years to the communication age where kids become more brazen with cell phones, internet etc and develop an attitude where they can do anything and not think of the consequences until the rubber meets the road. This would be another conversation for another time.

Tuesday and Friday
Moderator

Posts : 3866
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

T@F, i THINK YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD,PARENTAL ERODING.

Post  GNG on Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:21 am

I can't tell you how many parents have told me,"all the kids are doing it we don't want little johnny to feel left out". "we were their age once".Not to mention some of the kid's of divorced parents who play one off the other until they get what they want.Add the clueless parents into the mix,not to mention the cool parents{IDIOTS I CALL THEM} who host the parties, and I sometimes wonder how teams don't have more players suspended.The parents blame the schools,the schools blame the parents,nobody holds the kids accountable anymore.It's sad.

GNG
All-American
All-American

Posts : 1448
Join date : 2010-11-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  JT_nh_hs_fan on Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:52 pm

I check in here from time to time, and this thread I found a bit strange. I am not sure what the real motive was for starting it. This concept of losing your extra-curricular privileges for violating school rules has been around for decades. The gentleman who started this even later stated that his own son’s school provides them with a set of rules and consequences before their season starts. So what if different schools have different policies. Different parents treat kids differently. It’s life.

Portsmouth has had a serious problem with this over the last few years. There have been well publicized issues with baseball and swimming. Other seacoast schools have issues too – Somersworth had a number of athletes kicked off springtime teams right before the play-offs over a drinking party. St. Thomas expelled a number of athletes for violations of the schools codes over the years. Spaulding has its own problems with this too.

These stories are not unique to any one school and are not going away with any change in some structure of authority. Young kids make dumb decisions and sometimes the consequences need to be severe. These penalties do not extend to just athletes. They do indeed apply to all extra-curricular activities in most schools. Obviously I can’t say that is the case for each and every school, but it is true for all those I am aware of.

School and all its opportunities are supposed to teach our kids life lessons as well as the academics. This is a simple lesson – break the rules – LOSE your privileges!

If you keep your nose clean, it does not matter what the rules are in your school versus another one.


JT_nh_hs_fan
Moderator

Posts : 187
Join date : 2010-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  EBlessNHSP on Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:16 pm

Good points - and agree the thread is strange. I'm still not sure I understand ChiKids motives or point here. No special treatment should be given to any student athlete. If anything, the ones representing the schools should be held to a higher standard, since they wear their school, and community, on their chest.

_________________
NH Sports Forum Administrator
avatar
EBlessNHSP
Admin

Posts : 1705
Join date : 2009-01-21
Age : 37
Location : Fremont, NH

http://nhsportspage.com/index.php

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:36 pm

The only thing stranger than this thread is the visual of Kate Winslet and ChiKid a/k/a Mr. Controversy being adrift in the Atlantic Ocean after Mr. C's suspension ship sunk.

Tuesday and Friday
Moderator

Posts : 3866
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Suspensions and Basketball

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum