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Are Player Rankings in NH Worthwhile?

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Re: Are Player Rankings in NH Worthwhile?

Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:56 pm

chicagokid43 wrote:

I am more offended by the anonymous post and fake names that many hide behind to bash and complain about both players, coaches and yes even referees. I do not believe we will ever be able to respect the opinions of others until we know that the person writing them is willing to sign their name. Many have agenda's and say things just to rattle other cages. Time for all of us who truly think what we say is fact or at least something we believe in sign our names. If you cannot sign your name to what you write chances are you do not believe what you say yourself or you are talking out of both sides of your mouth anyway. I believe everyone has the right to an opinion but if you are going to publicly scrutinize a person on a public forum at least allow the person you are working over to know where it is coming from.


I don't see anybody bashing anybody, we're simply discussing an issue that has become more prevalent in the last 2 years that I think a lot of people obviously have feelings about.

Your "name" is your username. Lets put that to rest. You don't need to post your actual name, that is a breach of Personal Identifiable Information (PII) which is regulated these days by several government agencies. You are responsible for what you post, and if something inappropriate is posted users are dealt with by the moderators. That's how every other forum in the world operates, we'll be no different.

If there's a problem with how the forum is operated, please PM me directly and I can explain it further, or, don't post or read, fine with me either way.

Lets get back to the discussion at hand - I think this is has been a very constructive debate - and is EXACTLY what "forums" are all about.

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sorry

Post  8992 on Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:10 pm

I never “bashed, or publicly scrutinize a person”, school, player, organization, or parent.

A topic was posted and it asked for opinions on the subject and I gave mine. If someone felt offended by what I stated, or felt that I was referring to them personally then there must be some truth to what I am saying.

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Re: Are Player Rankings in NH Worthwhile?

Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:12 pm

ChiKid may have been referring to other websites. I like to think we do a pretty good job here keeping it relatively clean, protecting the kids, etc. While some things may slip through the cracks, there isn't the blatant disregard for kids well-being you saw on the VoyForums (from a few years ago) or other websites in the past.

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Re: Are Player Rankings in NH Worthwhile?

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:28 pm

I enjoy the rankings of players in this state by the different sites. Sometimes, it sways me to watch this game instead of that game because I want to go see this player or those couple of players. For instance, you have the nice start of Welch of Pembroke. He had 49 points in his first 2 games against some tough D2 competition. I looked on the NH Notebook and saw he was ranked in the Top 5 for the freshman class (He has since been moved up to #2 ). It spurs one's interest to hear about a player and then see a ranking confirmed on a certain basketball site. I commend the people doing the rankings. It is purely subjective, but for the most part, their rankings are accurate.

The only problem with the rankings is today's society, the internet and some sense of entitlement that some of these high schoolers have with these rankings. I won't name players, but there are certain instances where some of these players think they don't have to give 100% because they are # what ever ranked player. They have a sense of entitlement like the coaches and fellow players owe it to them to placate them. Some of these players check out of some practices and games because they don't think they have to bust butt because they are # what ever ranked player. Believe me, I have talked to coaches about this. They see this entitlement malaise that over runs their players because all of a sudden they are in the top 5, 10 or 20 etc players in the State of NH. Then you add the parents into this mix........

........Ah yes, the parents. When the parents see their son or daughter is ranked top 5, 10 or 20, then they put the squeeze on coaches to maintain their children's rankings. They might not call up the coaches, but you see them before, during and after games criticizing the coaching staff because their child hasn't scored enough or received what they perceive to be fair playing time. Coaches do not care about player rankings. They care about the team and working to make the team as good as possible. If it means taking the # 4 player and having them distribute the ball more or play defense against the other team's best player then so be it. If a player's rankings fall off or if things don't go as smooth as the parents perceive then it falls back on the coach, in the parent's eyes. It never dawns on the parents that their son or daughter didn't develop or others developed better on their team or on the opposing teams. Parents, for the most part, will point the fingers at the coaching staff. "My daughter or son is a top 5, 10 or 20 player, so the fact they are not doing well is because of the coaches." Of course, the missed shots, turn overs or lack of developing as a player has nothing to do with their child. Looking through rose colored glasses can be a dangerous thing. When you add the dynamic of parents into the player ranking debate...... well...... there are rose colored glasses being worn all over.

So, again I applaud the people who do the rankings. The rankings are informative and fun to look at. Noticed I said the word FUN. Unfortunately, players, parents and relatives take these rankings as Moses coming down from Mt Sinai with the Ten Commandments. The coaches don't care about the player rankings. This clashing of this "totally care" vs "don't care" creates an animosity in the team structure that undermines it and in some cases can bring a team down.

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Re: Are Player Rankings in NH Worthwhile?

Post  nhhoopguy on Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:21 am

I like to see the rankings, as I may go to see a game that has multiple players that are ranked, to see the comparison of those players.
Also, many past player head off to college, and decide to be just students, not athletes.

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Re: Are Player Rankings in NH Worthwhile?

Post  Bobcat on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:30 am

Rankings are nothing more than projections and an opinion of somebody. Many times they are right on and many times they miss huge. For example, Blake Griffin was the 23rd ranked player coming out of high school in 2007. I challenge anyone to find me 22 better players from the HS class of 2007. Rajon Rondo was 26th and Sebastian Telfair was 6th in 2004. Is there any question who is better now? In 2003 James Lang was ranked the number 8th prospect. Who is James Lang?????

A lot of people are talking about egos when discussing rankings, but here is another take on it. What about the kids that feel slighted by a ranking? These are the kids that have been told they aren't as good as someone else, and they have something to prove. These are the kids that work on their game year in and year out to prove everybody wrong.
The second way to look at this is when a kid is highly ranked and has to take everybody's best shot. This kid has to bring it everyday or else has to listen to people say he isn't as good as people think he is. In both these ways rankings promote a competitive fire. When looking at the good majority of kids ranked toward the top there is one thing they have in common.... They win games. What good is it to be the best player on a team that goes 4-14??? How good does that really make you?

No matter what a kid is ranked, the ultimate compliment any player can receive is to be told that they are tough and play hard. Do they take offensive charges? Make the extra pass? Dive on loose balls? Are they good teammates? Do they handle adversity well? At every level from high school, college, or professional levels this is what separates good from great.

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Re: Are Player Rankings in NH Worthwhile?

Post  EBlessNHSP on Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:24 am

Good post Bobcat. Thoughtful, and addresses some of the other side of the story nobody has talked about yet. That is precisely why this is a good discussion.

Despite some of the recent public backlash to this thread on the forum - this issue is not directed at a single website, person or organization. It's a discussion on the idea of player rankings, how it affects them on the court, at home, in practice etc. There are negative and positive outcomes as a result of player rankings and it's pretty obvious the forum is split pretty evenly down the middle - which is GREAT for debate!

It's ok to question why things are being done a certain way. It's ok to discuss whether it's right or wrong. And it's ok to rank kids, but if you do, you need to be prepared for people to talk about it. I'm sure NERR, Scouts Inc and Rivals get hundreds of emails a day about their rankings, maybe more. They put their neck out there, so they have to have the "skin" to take the good feedback with bad. Their rankings are discussed on EVERY college forum (each Rivals and Scout college page has a forum) and debated backwards and forwards.

This issue is not going away - as the Internet age evolves, more and more kids are using computers and getting influenced by sources outside their house. I count 3 websites ranking NHIAA kids - in 10 years, there could be 5 more, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, and you can thoughtfully argue either side, with each positive remark, there's a negative that it could be countered with. Bottom line is, do the positives outweigh the negatives? Honestly, I don't know, like this forum has been, I think it's split down the middle.

Most impressively - I think has been the discussion so far. I have not had to edit, or delete any posts on a subject that could easily have gotten out of control. So kudos to our New Hampshire Sports Forum community for thinking before you type, and making this an intelligent conversation.

That said, I hope everybody has a Happy Holiday this weekend and really looking forward to some of the game reports from the Holiday Tournaments next week! Merry Christmas!

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