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Salem - Winny Game & Protests

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Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:46 pm

Here is the NHIAA By-Law Article 7 which is titled: Protest Procedures. It clearly states no protests are allowed for judgement decisions. Only protests involving violations of a specific rule are allowed. Also, no video will be used pertaining to judgement calls by game officials.

So, with this, I believe Winny officially receives the victory and Salem officially receives the loss.


BY-LAW ARTICLE VII
Protest Procedure for All Sports
Sect. 1: The following is the procedure, which must be followed in protesting an athletic contest:
A. Only protests involving violation of a specific rule will be considered. A team may not protest decisions
of judgment.
B. The protest must be made verbally by the coach of the protesting team at the time of the
misinterpretation to the game officials and to the opposing coach.
C. Upon completion of the contest the protesting team must notify the game officials to file a written
statement of the incident with the Executive Director of the NHIAA within 24 hours.
D. The principal of the protesting school must notify the Executive Director of the NHIAA within 24 hours
of the incident.
E. A request of written statements from schools involved in the protest must be signed by both the
principal and coach. Copies of this correspondence must be sent to the principals of the schools
involved.
F. All contests are to be completed under any conditions of protest. A school that withdraws from the
contest shall be considered forfeiting to the opponent and the protest will be disallowed.
G. If a protest is upheld and the contest is directed replayed, it shall be replayed at the expense of the
schools involved.
H. Under no conditions will film and videotape be used by any NHIAA sports committee in situations
involving protests of decisions made by game/meet officials pertaining to judgment calls.

Sect. 2: Due Process Procedure
A. The decision from the Executive Director shall be made after consultation with the State Rules
Interpreter for that sport and the National Federation Rules Interpreter for that sport.
B. There is no appeal of the Executive Director's decision.
C. During State Tournament play, there shall be no appeals of protest to the Executive Director. All
protests must be resolved at the game site at the time of the protest.

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Re: Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  NH12345 on Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:38 am

Anyone seen the tape? I would love to get a view of it

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Re: Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  hoops31 on Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:43 pm

NH12345 wrote:Anyone seen the tape?  I would love to get a view of it

Link of game below. If you watch you will see that the ball does go in. The confusion is that a Salem player jumps up and actually touches the ball a few inches from the rim right after it goes in making it look like it may not have gone in. In my opinion an interference call vs the Salem player could have been called (highly unlikely in that situation) because he was in the net and contacted the ball before it went through the net. The officials involved are highly respected and very good officials. Crazy Situation, feel bad for Salem team.

Salem Winny game

http://hamptonchannel22.pegcentral.com/player.php?video=fa0567e67c1aac5d9d0c03061a064a73


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Re: Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  Clancy on Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:22 am


I feel terrible a game could end this way, especially the way the Winni fans and a few players were taunting Salem kids after the game. I can't imagine winning a game like this and not giving it back to Salem. A real opportunity for a "teachable moment" for Winni.

Feel bad for the officials too. The ball went through so clean and fast you can see how it would have been easy too miss. I am certain the officials would like nothing better than this be fixed.


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Re: Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:46 am

Jay McKenna @warriorhoop
@SHSHoops1 Thank you for the support. Greatly appreciate it. Just trying to do what's best for all involved. I know you would do the same.



NH Sports Page.com‏@nhsportspage
I've been told Winnacunnet sent a letter to the NHIAA asking that Salem be awarded the victory from #swishgate. The NHIAA turned them down.

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Re: Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  SeacoastDad on Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:12 pm

hoops31 wrote:
NH12345 wrote:Anyone seen the tape?  I would love to get a view of it

Link of game below. If you watch you will see that the ball does go in. The confusion is that a Salem player jumps up and actually touches the ball a few inches from the rim right after it goes in making it look like it may not have gone in. In my opinion an interference call vs the Salem player could have been called (highly unlikely in that situation)   because he was in the net and contacted the ball before it went through the net. The officials involved are highly respected and very good officials. Crazy Situation, feel bad for Salem team.

Salem Winny game

http://hamptonchannel22.pegcentral.com/player.php?video=fa0567e67c1aac5d9d0c03061a064a73


T&F (and other refs out there):  regarding the interference comment above, when is a basket considered "good"?  When the top of the ball passes the bottom of the rim?  When the ball passes completely through the net?  Something else?  Just curious.

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Re: Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:20 pm

In answer to your question, SeacoastDad:

Rule 5 Section 1 Article 1: A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through. No goal is scored if an untouched throw-in goes through the basket.

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Re: Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:13 am

From John Habib in today's UL:


NO high school sports season can play out without a little controversy. Basketball had its serious first faux pas unfold in Friday’s Division I boys’ game between Salem and Winnacunnet of Hampton.

The Warriors held a 46-44 lead in the waning moments of a back-and-forth contest when Matt McLaughlin drained a prayer from half court that would’ve given the Blue Devils a one-point victory. The drama ensued when the officiating crew conferred shortly after the horn and decided McLaughlin’s winner in fact did not go in the basket, despite one official signaling a conversion from under the basket.

Salem coach Rob McLaughlin, who saw his son’s shot clearly fall from the bench nearest to the basket, was irate following the reversal and immediately stated he’d be protesting the result.

The final word on the appeal came down on Tuesday, as the NHIAA upheld the result despite Rob McLaughlin and Winnacunnet coach Jay McKenna agreeing that the shot fell and Salem won the game.

“It looked to us like the ball went in. Simple as that,” Rob McLaughlin said. “When it comes down to it, the NHIAA made its decision and agreed with the way things went down. We’ve just moved ourselves by getting that one last night and now we are onto the next one.”

McKenna, a close friend of Rob McLaughlin’s, had no problem with the protest initially, but was all for it following his own investigation of game tape showing the shot clearly went in. With all that in mind, McKenna did not have a good conscience while accepting the positive result for his club on Tuesday.

“I’ve had three sleepless nights over this,” McKenna said. “We’ve all had games that haven’t gone our way, but I have never seen an ending quite like this in my 25 years in the game.”

McKenna and the Winnacunnet administration went as far as penning a letter to the NHIAA stating they knew they had lost and asked for the office to take that into consideration before making their final decision. McKenna said the NHIAA appreciated the letter, but ultimately McKenna was told it would have no bearing on the decision.

Everything might’ve been different had the NHIAA been able to use the same video McKenna viewed. Per NHIAA bylaws regarding protests, no film or videotape is permitted to help decide appeals made by officials pertaining to a judgement call.

In light of Friday’s situation, Rob McLaughlin and McKenna are both in favor of the NHIAA amending regulations regarding video and protests, especially in an era where the pro and college game have each adopted the use of video to ensure certainty in all decisions.

“If it makes the experience for the kids better, then you have to consider it,” said Rob McLaughlin on the possibility of changes. “We’re in this for the kids and to have them get the most out of what they are doing. You want them to learn some life lessons and take that piece of it with them, so I’m in favor of any proposition into making that happen more effectively.”

The result may have direct implications to seeding for both teams in the upcoming playoffs when it’s all said and done. Salem is 5-8 and currently the No. 14 seed after thumping Pembroke on Tuesday, but the extra win over Winnacunnet would’ve propelled the Blue Devils into 10th. For the Warriors, the win sets them in ninth at 8-5, but with four of its last five games against teams below them in the standings, Winnacunnet may find itself in line for a first-round home game come playoff time.


- See more at: http://www.unionleader.com/article/20160218/SPORTS21/160219109#sthash.BECyud7U.dpuf

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Re: Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  NH12345 on Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:44 pm

Question for all you officials out there. . .

If you were officiating this game, would you want the NHIAA to overturn your call and give Salem the win?


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Re: Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  Clancy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:09 pm

Of course they would, I am sure those 2 gentleman feel awful. Especially if one had it right and the other talked them out of it. (As it appears on video)


For the good of the officials this needs to be overturned. This furthers the paranoia that local officials "help" the home team. Can either of those guys do a Salem game again? I was told one of the officials is from Hampton, normally I'd say that's fine. But is it now OK? This really causes a negative light to be thrown on officiating. A tough job that many do so well.




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Re: Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  JAF on Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:46 pm


When you've had it drilled into you to get together to get the call right - I think the governing body should be able to follow suit, but that's my opinion and viewpoint.

I looked at both angles I found online - one on barstool and another I found on shark1053.com - the former is very difficult to tell especially with the player putting his hand through the net almost simultaneously... The latter is clear that the shot was good.

As for anyone saying it was obvious - let's consider where two the officials were standing... I saw the lead along the baseline to the right of the basket as the camera was looking from midcourt... That means trail is on opposite corner, but I couldn't see exactly where he was. It is the trail's responsibility for the ball going in. It's also his responsibility to make sure the shot goes off before time expires, the shooter isn't fouled after the shot while still in the air, the shooter doesn't foul, there's no "unsporting act" in the area, and of course seeing the ball go in. The official on the baseline is not supposed to be looking at the ball go in, but unless he's 110% sure it's hard to "overrule" the trail.

FWIW: Yes - I've seen a very similar thing in my few short years officiating - it wasn't clear to me as trail whether the ball went in, but most times players give it away. Especially the team that would now be taking the ball out of bounds... In a last second shot like that was you don't get that look, but you do not see the Winni players jumping up and down... Tough, tough, call.

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Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  tiger46 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:44 am

JAF,
I'm not an official nor am I a conspiracy theorist. I truly believe the officials try to be as unbiased as possible when they do these games. With that said, your explanation on positioning and whose call makes this look worse. As you can clearly see the trail official makes the correct call. He is in position, has signaled two arms up, indicating a made 3 point field goal. The baseline official must have been the one to talk him out of the call. Had each stuck to their responsibility on the play – they would have gotten the call right.

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Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  tiger46 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:46 am

here is the url
http://shark1053.com/salem-vs-winnacunnet-basketball-game-ends-in-bizarre-controversy/

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Ref positions

Post  AvonBarksdale on Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:26 pm

As I understand it...

- The trail ref is responsible for judging if the ball went in.
- The lead ref in the corner was responsible for making sure the shot got off in time. Therefore, his responsibility was to keep an eye on the clock.
- The refs are allowed to consult the scorer's table as a third set of eyes when a judgment call is questioned.
- As I was not there, I am not sure who officially said the shot did not go in but my guess is the scorer's table was involved based on the videos from the game.

Also worth mentioning, athletes are not allowed to make contact with the ball until it has clearly passed through the net. The Salem player in the net is a clear cut case of basket interference (even though this is rarely called).
.
The rule is stated as follows:

Section 6. Article 1: Basket interferences occurs when a player touches the ball or any part of the basket (including the net) while the ball is on or within either basket.

From page 29 of the NFHS Basketball Rules

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Re: Salem - Winny Game & Protests

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:40 pm

Avon,

Your understanding of the lead ref is 100% erroneous.

Basket interference has NEVER been part of the equation as to whether the basket was good or not...... NEVER.

I think at this point it's best to stop trying to dissect the last shot of the Salem/Winny game, like a frog in a HS science class.


There are some good games tonight hi-lighted by Exeter at Memorial, 2 of the top 5 scoring teams in D1. You have BG at Pinkerton. Alvirne at Salem.

Nice one in D2 as the "Social media giant known as Timberlane" visits West. Very Happy

A big shout out to a great D4 boys' game last night. Epping went on the road and came away with an exciting 84 to 78 victory over Derryfield. There weren't too many points separating these teams for the entire 32 minutes. Coach Bradley has done a nice job of keeping Derryfield in the playoff hunt after losing a lot from last year's team. Coach Young of Epping has his squad playing an exciting and entertaining style of ball. There was no shot clock needed in this game !!. Not too many offensive possessions went over 20 seconds. The fans in attendance at Derryfield HS got their non-money's worth (No admission charged  Wink )

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