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Pembroke Part II

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Pembroke Part II

Post  tiger46 on Thu May 08, 2014 1:49 pm

The most intriguing part of the Monitor story is that Corbin would not say why after 3 years at Pembroke, Timbas needed a waiver to play another season.  How is it that Pembroke decided to request a waiver for a junior?  Did the NHIAA request it after some investigation? Did Pembroke realize that they never provided the necessary paperwork when he was a freshman?  Is the standard process for kids who repeat 8th grade to need a waiver their senior year?  Not sure we will ever find out but, that would be really interesting to know.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  1moreknowitall on Thu May 08, 2014 2:24 pm

I think Manchfan is a smart guy....

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Pembroke Part II

Post  tiger46 on Thu May 08, 2014 2:39 pm

At tom2
Do you know why the family needed to request a waiver? Was it a request from the NHIAA?

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  tom2 on Thu May 08, 2014 3:20 pm

they petitioned for the waiver because the Pembroke athletic director informed them that the NHIAA rules state that all kids who have repeated the 8th grade require a waiver.. it seems that they may have been one of the very few who actually followed that rule...

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu May 08, 2014 4:19 pm

How'd you like to be Jeff Collins right about now?

Ho hum, nothing to do on my first day. Think he's frantically emailing Pat Corbin saying "WTF man!?!?"

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hooper on Thu May 08, 2014 4:36 pm

That is not a rule, you do not need to self report. I believe you T2 that you were told it is, but it is not. You need to comply to the rules as they exist. Schools enforce the rules not the NHIAA. Only very specific things need to be reported (like transfers)

PA had a kid who graduated last year who did the exact same thing and nothing was reported to the NHIAA. Also Trinity this year as well.

I would bet that Bedford complained and Pembroke submitted itself to scrutiny thinking that Dom was in the clear anyway.


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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  EBlessNHSP on Thu May 08, 2014 4:38 pm

Dave Haley just pointed out on Twitter that the NHIAA disallowed Josh Joyce at Gilford for the same reason.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  tom2 on Thu May 08, 2014 5:42 pm

the PA AD told them it should be done so they did it...that is my understanding

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Pembroke Part II

Post  tiger46 on Thu May 08, 2014 7:02 pm

I’m sure I’m going to ruffle feathers but, here you go:
These suspensions will not change anything. There will be lawsuits that will cost both sides a bunch of money that neither side will likely recover. Kids who have already repeated 8th grade will go elsewhere (prep or out of state). Of course, the kids who are repeating happen to be some of the best players statewide. Couple the loss of these kids with the elite players who already bolt for prep and the dilution of play in the NHIAA will continue.
Kids will stop repeating 8th grade. However, they will start repeating 7th or 6th. The rule says eight semesters after 8th grade so this will be perfectly legal. The NHIAA has to be foolish to think that players who repeat 8th grade won’t repeat 7th instead.
By enforcing this rule it will make it impossible to come back from Prep School if the player has reclassified and which one hasn’t. Even if the player needs to transfer back to public school because of true financial reasons, the reclassification will cost him his senior year.
As I said before, this is a new generation. The emphasis on high school sports has exploded in the last few years. The old rules – don’t translate to today’s players. They need to be modified or the best players this state has to offer will be suspended and waiting for AAU or playing somewhere else.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  EBlessNHSP on Fri May 09, 2014 9:45 am

This is not going away...Duckler with the latest on the Front Page of todays Monitor.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/11879667-95/ray-duckler-at-pembroke-a-bitter-battle-off-the-court

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  JustinMcIsaac on Fri May 09, 2014 9:47 am

No dog in this fight but "I'm a man of means and I'll destroy you" is my new go-to chirp.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  EBlessNHSP on Fri May 09, 2014 9:49 am

Tiger - your post shouldn't ruffle feathers, not if people are living in todays reality. I think you're right with pretty much everything you said - its a new day in HS sports.

Once again - this will no longer be Pat Corbins problem in a month (unless Mr. Timbas decides to somehow sue him personally). Jeff Collins is the new Executive Director of the NHIAA and the PA Scheduling and Eligibility controversies should be at the top of his list. How he handles these issues going forward will likely define the future of the NHIAA and the publics opinion. Not an easy task but there's tremendous opportunity to do as you said Tiger, look at the rules, look at todays youth athletic environment and make necessary changes so at the end of the day the Student Athletes are able to compete on a level playing field.


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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  EBlessNHSP on Fri May 09, 2014 9:53 am

JustinMcIsaac wrote:No dog in this fight but "I'm a man of means and I'll destroy you" is my new go-to chirp.

I plan to start each of my conference calls with that line this morning. Will see how well it goes over and report back.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hoopfan12 on Fri May 09, 2014 12:13 pm

If what I am hearing from folks is true, both Otis and Giampetruzzi where in the very same home school program as Timbas was in Penacook, NH. Does anyone know if that is true?

I ask because would that not set pressidance? No question this is a personal grudge. I think Hooper's documentation of what eligibility states shows that.

Never ending saga.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  tom2 on Fri May 09, 2014 12:30 pm

At Hooper
it is my understanding that the student you referred to in an earlier post (Do  not wish to names) did in fact petition the NHIAA for a waiver for the 2012 to 2013 season and it was granted. This information is available if you wanted to petition to see it. It is an example of Pembroke self-reporting just as the Timbas' also did.Pembroke also we're the ones who initially reported the other two players who were declared ineligible this year as well. 
you can fact check this information if you should choose. Again it's just hard to see an accurate pieces of information posted and not address it

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  tom2 on Fri May 09, 2014 12:41 pm

one last piece of information in regard to the waiver for Dom, the parents met with Dr Reardon and the AD and were told they were going to have to apply for a waiver not just because the AD was doing her diligence as per her job description, but also because during that infamous meeting of all ADs and principles, they were made aware by another schools administration that an issue of Dominic's eligibility was going to be addressed. That seems a bit premeditated I would say. It seems they had planned on doing this to him. Again blatant targeting....this is my best understanding of the situation


Last edited by tom2 on Fri May 09, 2014 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  FormerFalcoln on Fri May 09, 2014 3:14 pm

EBlessNHSP wrote:Tiger - your post shouldn't ruffle feathers, not if people are living in todays reality.  I think you're right with pretty much everything you said - its a new day in HS sports.

Once again - this will no longer be Pat Corbins problem in a month (unless Mr. Timbas decides to somehow sue him personally).  Jeff Collins is the new Executive Director of the NHIAA and the PA Scheduling and Eligibility controversies should be at the top of his list.  How he handles these issues going forward will likely define the future of the NHIAA and the publics opinion.  Not an easy task but there's tremendous opportunity to do as you said Tiger, look at the rules, look at todays youth athletic environment and make necessary changes so at the end of the day the Student Athletes are able to compete on a level playing field.  


I think you would be surprised about the public opinion on this. What you see here is primarily in support of PA and the kids. When I talk to parents, other administrators, other coaches, and people who do not "have a dog in this hunt" they typically express support for the NHIAA. They see the AAU - Raiders link to the Pembroke program and feel it is not a level playing field. They tell me that the "safer environment" and the "academic" argument do not make sense as this seems only to apply to the basketball transfers and not other programs at PA. I think this is a 50/50. I do not think there is an overwhelming majority of support for Pembroke and I do not think there is a majority of support for the NHIAA. What the Timbas family did is no different than I have seen done in the past. I know of kids in soccer, baseball, football, basketball, track, softball, hockey, who have all done this - keep a talented kid back in the 8th or 7th grade - give them a senior year advantage. I just wish the parents and adults would admit that they have done this for basketball reasons and that they have put their own kids in this mess. This is not the doings of the NHIAA, this is the doings of the parents who transferred kids in, the Alsoa AAU program, the parents who placed basketball above education in the name of "chasing their dreams". Clearly these parents do not realize their kids have a better chance of securing academic scholarships than athletic scholarships. Again, if PA does not have these transfers all from the Raiders AAU program none of this, NONE of this ever becomes an issue. You make your bed you have to sleep in it.

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Pembroke Part II

Post  tiger46 on Fri May 09, 2014 5:07 pm

At Falcon:
Let me start out by saying that I don’t have a dog in the fight, I feel that the NHIAA is being a bully.  Also, let me add that like a lot of people across the state, I think there is an unholy union between the Raiders and PA that needs to be addressed by the NHIAA.  I’m not surprised by the public opinion at all. 50/50 split seems generous to me.  More like 70/30 against PA.
I applauded the AD association’s decision to not schedule PA. They want Alosa out.  They seem to have evidence of recruiting that won’t be made to the public so fine, force him out. This put the ball in PA’s court.  Fire Matt and get a schedule. Keep him and PA becomes gypsies, playing Prep School B teams and out of state.  This seems like a good solution to me, but Corbin decided to escalate.
My problem with the NHIAA is that they are going after the players to get back at the Alosa’s.  It’s like a bad TV cop show where the bad guy can’t kill the politician so he kidnaps and tortures his children. The NHIAA has no jurisdiction that allows them to do anything to PA or the Raiders so they are exacting their revenge on the players.  
First, there were the two transfers that were denied.  We all know of at least two prominent athletes who had their transfers approved at the same time.  Everyone, including the NHIAA knew they were all transferring for sports, but chose to grant all transfers except to PA.
Second, the NHBBCO striped the POY award from a PA player and denied him the chance to play in the Twin state games.  I wonder if the powers that be checked all of the twitter accounts of the players that were selected to make sure there were no unsportsmanlike comments on their accounts.  
Third, the senior year waiver was denied by the NHIAA for the PA player even though other players mentioned above had theirs approved.  I understand that all three of these cases were infractions subject to penalty, however, apparently not applied evenly across the state.  Some people are making beds and not having to sleep in them.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  tom2 on Fri May 09, 2014 5:57 pm

At Tiger
thank you for at least being a reasonable and sensible voice and not just purely vindictive as some are.
I could assure you that there were many not very nice tweets going in both directions and the tweeter you speak of was clearly targeted..I know that tweeter, & I am Not sure there are many nicer kids out there.
and to the spiteful who just want to see the whole school and all the kids punished, just remember it's a difficult experience for many of those going through it. Most of the kids have not been accused of being recruited, but will still suffer all these consequences. As I have mentioned before my son was a starter on the team and never had been a part of the Raiders. He loves playing basketball, it's what keeps him busy, happy and healthy, it's what he has been doing with most of his free time since he was in kindergarten and now he's about to lose his senior year, his last year to play. I just can't see how anybody enjoys seeing that happen..but it appears that many do

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Just a guess

Post  Not in the know on Fri May 09, 2014 6:26 pm

I am just taking a wild guess but FormerFalcoln said that he coached a number of years ago, so I would think that his position is not an unbiased one and he has had some sort of confrontation with Frank Alosa in the past.

With that being said, it does seem that Pat Corbin is treating the PA kids differently than he has treated other kids in the past. There have been many student/athletes who have repeated the 8th grade and then gone on to play 4 years of high school ball for schools under the NHIAA umbrella. There were kids who played for Trinity's and Central's state championship teams from the last 2 years who did this.

In my opinion, Mr. Corbin does have an ax to grind with the Alosas and he is using his remaining days "in power" to try to drive them out and he doesn't care who he hurts in the process. For the kids sake, I hope that this is settled quickly and the kids at PA get a chance to enjoy their high school years both athletically and in the classroom.

And before I am accused of being a PA parent or fan, I do not have a connection to their program. I have just read all the articles and have watched the conversations on this site and thought that I would add my two cents.

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Pembroke Part II

Post  tiger46 on Fri May 09, 2014 6:38 pm

Let me just throw this out there.  If the AD association does not schedule any games against PA this coming year (D1 or D2) and PA is forced to play a schedule of Prep School B teams and schools from out of state, why would Dominic Timbas have to sit out?

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  1moreknowitall on Fri May 09, 2014 6:43 pm

The NHIAA doesn't look for violations....they have to deal with the violations when they are thrown in their face on an individual basis. I don't know all the details and no one really seems to know...lots of of one sided slants either in favor or against. With that said it's pretty clear Pembroke has been red flagged....that doesn't just pop up out of no where It seems like every time something is investigated there's a lot of gray area from the PA side and walking the tight rope when it comes to rules. To make the PA people feel better I'm sure there are violations at every high school. With that said, it seems like they are bringing the tight roping to an all time high. It's unfair to compare them to what happens at BG or Trinity....those schools have the easy loopholes....I'm not a BG or Trinity for record.

I don't know Coach Alosa at all, but he has to seriously think about resigning for the sake of the kids. It sounds like he has enough of a basketball resume to land on his feet, probably at the college level. My perception from what I read/hear is there is some arrogance in the Alosa's. Based on no comments heard from him at all I'm sure he's been told by administration not to say a word, but it also makes you wonder if he's putting his winning record before the kids at Pembroke. Just my two cents.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  1moreknowitall on Fri May 09, 2014 6:45 pm

If I'm retiring in 2 months...the last thing I want to deal with is a major controversy. More reason to think the violations are being thrown in the face of Mr. Corbin and he has no choice but to deal with them. Speculating, but trying to be logical.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  tom2 on Fri May 09, 2014 6:49 pm

Tiger, he wouldn't, but I think we are still trying to obtain a schedule and in that case he[size=42] would of course want to play. And, I think its natural instinct when you're being treated unfairly or singled out in such a way, that one wants to fight for what is right.[/size]

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hooper on Fri May 09, 2014 7:00 pm

I have to agree with Former Falcon.  The catalyst of this whole situation is Pembroke's utter disregard of the rules in transfering/recruitment and a complete lack of honesty from there coaching staff.  I am by no means a Pembroke fan.

But

This is completely wrong.  This kid is being punished for the sins of the Coaches, Principal and AD.  This kid did exactly what other students have done and the rules are vague on this issue at best.  


The rules have to be enforced uniformly.  The NHIAA cannot selectively enforce, believe me there are nervous Juniors RIGHT NOW who may or may not be able to play there senior year if Dom Timbas's situation is ruled as illegal. Just look at the kids on todays rosters who will also be inelligible.   One of those athletes mentioned earlier is the best baseball player in the state, probably played in a game today.  He should be ruled ineligible by Pat Corbins logic.

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