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Pembroke Part II

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  SeacoastDad on Tue May 20, 2014 10:51 am

Hoopfan12 wrote:Three Manchester schools agree to play Pembroke...see today's Concord Monitor

Does anybody with access to the Monitor on-line feel like cutting and pasting the article here?  I must have used up my free views!

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  tom2 on Tue May 20, 2014 11:00 am

http://mobile.concordmonitor.com/home/12039273-108/manchester-schools-to-pembroke-lets-play-basketball

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Pembroke Part II

Post  NHRamFan on Tue May 20, 2014 11:03 am

All of this brings to light the real topic in need of discussion: What is the NHIAA? What is its role? What are its "powers?"

It would appear that the NHIAA derives its power from the member schools. It sets rules, but then relies on individual member schools to enforce, or not enforce, as they see fit. It doesn't set schedules, yet runs the playoffs. However, we are now seeing circumstances where the NHIAA and/or the director, chooses to enforce certain rules.

I am NOT taking any sides on the recent issues of schedules, eligibility, etc....but rather putting out there the real issue that needs resolution: where does the NHIAA fit in the overall scheme of HS athletics in NH? Is it time for dissolution of the organization and the creation of a new governing body?


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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  JAF on Tue May 20, 2014 11:43 am



SeacoastDad - HINT... Remove cookies from your browser history and you'll magically get your views back... For me/Firefox, that's in preferences, privacy tab, "remove individual cookies"... Search on website domain name - remove all... Voila - you have your views back...

Also of note from Jeremy's article about the result of the vote directly contradicts Falcoln's sources about unanimous. Like I hinted at or guessed before - I don't see any way the AD's/Principals individually came up with this themselves. Too much risk to a group of educators that like to minimize risk. It seems they were fed a load of Corbin's vitriole against Pembroke, then decided or asked to vote *with* Corbin in the room. The "other side" wasn't presented fairly. Given all this recent news/stuff hitting the fan - maybe people will come to see that Corbin perhaps does have an axe to grind and right now there's student athletes caught in the crosshairs. Is that right or fair? To have anyone assert that they wouldn't do the same as the Timbas' and other Pembroke families are doing when faced with decisions that hurt your children is perhaps a bit disingenuous IMHO.

I think you will see more schools schedule PA now... Good for Manchester... It's a leadership position and proves that the largest school district in the state believes PA is also a member in good standing. It's time to put all this behind us and show there's no place for bullying from any level. Time spent playing HS sports is so fleeting. It's only those that have been involved a long time that seem to hold grudges and cannot move on. It's like the AAU coach that one year told me he was running up the score in a game because at some point in recent history the other program did the same to him. None of the kids were the same, but the two coaches were and they didn't like each other at all. If you don't see the correllation you haven't been around youth sports long enough.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hoopfan12 on Tue May 20, 2014 2:29 pm

I am wondering if Pembroke gets 12 divisional games, which I believe is the number to be eligible for the tournament, if teams like Pinkerton and others will refuse to play them in the tournament to further take a stand against what they believe are wrong doings?

thoughts??


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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hooper on Tue May 20, 2014 2:34 pm

I really hope we don't confuse these two issues.

1)  Dom Timbas should be eligible.  He has done nothing wrong, and is collateral damage for PA's transgressions

2)  The scheduling or non scheduling of schools vs Pembroke is because of recruiting violations.  In this PA is red handed guilty.  The question is does the punishment fit the crime.

I would hate to see Dom ruled ineligible and PA go on with a schedule.  That would be perfect injustice.   Alosa unscathed, Dom Timbas never plays in high school again.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Ironman on Tue May 20, 2014 11:03 pm

Isn't it a little ironic that the public schools in Manchester are the first to give in and schedule PA, while Trinity -- who also "recruits" athletes -- hasn't?

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  JAF on Wed May 21, 2014 6:45 am

Impetus probably comes from coaches who if you think about it would rather play competitive games and are closer to the kids, their families, and their college hopes... Trinity's coach is still "new"... I think it'll happen.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hooper on Wed May 21, 2014 7:18 am

West is in D2 now and has a schedule. I am not sure they will be picking up PA. It doesn't help them get to the 12 games they need in d1 anyway.

What coaches say publicly and what they say privately can be different. Looking at Pembroke's schedule the last few years they were sent all over the state to play because certain schools would not play them. Many coaches are upset about their recruiting.

Still pulling for Timbas though

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  FormerFalcoln on Wed May 21, 2014 8:49 am

Hooper wrote:I really hope we don't confuse these two issues.

1)  Dom Timbas should be eligible.  He has done nothing wrong, and is collateral damage for PA's transgressions

2)  The scheduling or non scheduling of schools vs Pembroke is because of recruiting violations.  In this PA is red handed guilty.  The question is does the punishment fit the crime.

I would hate to see Dom ruled ineligible and PA go on with a schedule.  That would be perfect injustice.   Alosa unscathed, Dom Timbas never plays in high school again.

100% Correct Hooper. Two things to mention about the article in the Monitor regarding Manchester Schools & the NHNotebook article by Jeremy:

1. Alosa commenting on the meeting is ironic because he did not attend the DI Athletic Directors meeting. The article is interesting because is makes it look and sound like it was an "in and out" deal with Corbin running the show. In fact Pembroke was given time for Q&A, fielding questions and presenting their plan for over 2 hours in that meeting. Pat Corbin did make a statement prior to the vote. The voting members (AD's only) in that meeting were the votes of record 17 - 2. So ok, not "Unanimous" but 11% voted in the positive. Not exactly a flood of support.
2. West is officially D2 so if PA plays them they still need 12 DI games to be eligible to compete for the playoffs. Say Central and Memorial do play them 2X, they still need 8 more games minimum to qualify for the playoffs.

With respect to the post of dismantling the NHIAA? What would you propose NH SHOULD have? Again, you have NO concept of what the NHIAA is. How do you do this? The NHIAA is made up of ALL of the schools in the state. Every state has an athletics association with an Executive Director that serves as the liaison to the NFHS. If NH were to "dissolve" the NHIAA, what would be a better solution? Just curious.

As for Dom Timbas - if the appeal favors Dom, where does he play next year if PA has no schedule? He would have to transfer. Which means he would have to submit paperwork for a transfer - which would be for athletic reasons. Thus, he would be ineligible. Right? He would be transferring for basketball if PA has no schedule to play.

With respect to the Timbas case right now, talking to two different DI AD's this week, the NHIAA Executive Council and the Eligibility committee will be revising the rules this summer regardless of how this case turns out, so that holding kids back in the 8th grade will serve no advantage. Parents will basically have to do it in the 7th grade.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  nhball9 on Wed May 21, 2014 8:53 am

tom2 wrote:Great article Jeremy! Hope to read more about your take on some of the tournament games!
Wondering what some of the nay sayers are thinking about Pembroke getting a schedule and Jeremy's article.... Smile 

Didn't read the whole article? The two coaches disagree with the decision because Pembroke got caught red-handed recruiting (that is a fact- two players were suspended and went through the whole appeal process and lost= guilty). Pembroke didn't "get a schedule", two schools agreed to schedule them- not even close to the 40% needed to qualify for the tournament. Why did Manchester circumvent their coaches, school AD's, school boad committee? Oh that is correct, Mayor Gatsas is very tight with the Alosas.
I stand by my earlier statement: Pembroke won't have a D1 schedule with Coach Alosa still employed by that district. He is the guilty party here, and everyone else over there has to pay for it. Too bad.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hoopfan12 on Wed May 21, 2014 9:29 am

@ Falcon...what does Alosa not attending the meeting have to do with anything? You did not attend either but have many opinions and thoughts about what will happen in this case and what went down in the meeting. AH yes, your inside people are telling you......listen, go to the bank, take out all you own, and go to Vegas and lay it on Timbas gaining eligibility back. The counsel has reasonable folks on it.

I think the NHIAA is going to rethink the rule because it cannot be enforced with any consistency. One kid gets it, one doesn't. It may be time to re-think the rule, as they did with coaches working out of season with student-athletes.

Now the Mayor of Manchester is in on it. Good lord, you should write fantasy novels.

I don't think that the NHIAA should dismantle, but like any good organization, you should look to improve and self assess. Not sure that happens enough. I do think that in the next few years some of the old guard will be phasing out and new blood will come in with fresh ideas.

Two kids lost eligibility because of a residency issue, not that they were found to have been recruited. If anyone has documents they can post on this site showing that is otherwise then please do....... I know what folks think happened (recruiting), but is that what the NHIAA said in its ruling, or was it they could not produce proof of actually living in Pembroke SAU?


Last edited by Hoopfan12 on Wed May 21, 2014 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  bumper on Wed May 21, 2014 11:17 am

Ironman,
I would expect Manchester to support Pembroke. Look at the number of Manchester kids that slide from school to school. All they have to say is my school doesn't offer something they are interested in. But the other school does. I am a football player and I want to go to Central.
Not really a surprise.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  JAF on Wed May 21, 2014 11:52 am

The UL article today makes it seem the two coaches were not in support of the athletic director's decision to schedule PA.

The whole situation/story is so surreal and messed up. Looks like it won't end either until some time late summer when schedules are sent to the basketball committee.

Great - how many responses of speculation can we build up until then  Very Happy 

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  tom2 on Wed May 21, 2014 12:39 pm

At NHball9
when I said good article ...Jeremy, I was referring to the article on New Hampshire notebook. And yes I did read the whole thing

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hoopfan12 on Wed May 21, 2014 2:33 pm

Just saw article on today's Union Leader online paper explaining Memorial and Central decision to play Pembroke....

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  FormerFalcoln on Wed May 21, 2014 2:36 pm

Hoopfan12 wrote:
I do think that the NHIAA should dismantle, but like any good organization, you should look to improve and self assess. Not sure that happens enough. I do think that in the next few years some of the old guard will be phasing out and new blood will come in with fresh ideas.

Two kids lost eligibility because of a residency issue, not that they were found to have been recruited. If anyone has documents they can post on this site showing that is otherwise then please do....... I know what folks think happened (recruiting), but is that what the NHIAA said in its ruling, or was it they could not produce proof of actually living in Pembroke SAU?

So what happens after the NHIAA dismantles? Who organizes the games? The schedules? The officials? Who writes the rules? Who determines eligibility? See, you say dismantle the NHIAA and everything just runs on its own? Seriously - listen to yourself. Who is the "old guard" you are talking about? Corbin and the asst. director are both out this year. You don't know or understand how the NHIAA works. The NHIAA is comprised of every athletic director and building principals at every high school in NH. So by saying they should dismantle you are talking non-sense. Be realistic. Because you don't like what has happened and that PA broke rules regarding players, does not mean you dump the rules. Again, this comes down to 3 people - Matt Alosa, Klink, and Reardon - target your frustration at them - they put Pembroke in this mess.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hoopfan12 on Wed May 21, 2014 2:42 pm

nope...went back and changed it yesterday and re-sent but it did not take....I DO NOT think the NHIAA should be dismantled...but should self reflect and look at its by laws and perhaps re-word or re-vamp them.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  FormerFalcoln on Wed May 21, 2014 3:04 pm

So when reading the article in the Union Leader today - this decision was not made by Central or Memorial. The article is pretty clear that the District AD, not the building level AD's decided on this. It also appears that the new district AD did not win any points by not consulting the building AD's or the coaches before they decided this. Not a way to win over your coaches or mid level management.

So why the change of heart Hoopfan? You were clearly in favor of dismantling the NHIAA? What epiphany occurred to change your mind? As for the NHIAA they already are revising the eligibility rules - regardless of the Timbas ruling in favor or against his eligibility.

I am still curious how Timbas plays next year if he is ruled eligible and Pembroke has no schedule... if he transfers it is clearly for sports, and not for the superior academic experience, which is against the transfer rule.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  SeacoastDad on Wed May 21, 2014 3:14 pm

When I first read Hoopfan12's post, based on the rest of his comment, I was quite certain he meant to say he did not think the NHIAA should be dismantled. An honest typo.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hoopfan12 on Wed May 21, 2014 4:11 pm

why thank you sir

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hoopfan12 on Wed May 21, 2014 4:12 pm

did not change my mind it was a typo.....or can't you read

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  Hoopfan12 on Wed May 21, 2014 4:14 pm

Hey Falcon,...thought you were not going to chime in again until after Timbas case was announced...why the change of heart??

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  HaleyNHsports on Wed May 21, 2014 4:36 pm

I hadn’t weighed in on this topic on the forum because I feel like McIsaac and I covered that in two separate radio shows. I’ve actually enjoyed reading everyone’s back & forth and was happy to sit back and be the reader for once.

Something though was posted earlier in the week that I can’t stay quiet about.

I stopped by the state AAU tournament for about 90 minutes on Saturday to see the son of a good friend of mine play and ended up spending the entire time catching up with coaches, players & parents.

One of those conversations was with Matt Alosa. I hadn’t spoken or seen Coach Alosa since being in the winning locker room with Pete Tarrier at UNH.

We spoke off the record (as every conversation I had at the tournament was) about the Pembroke situation, his insight into where it stood and his thoughts on how the process is playing out. As we were talking Jeremy Leveille nosed his way in (this is a textbook Jeremy move since 2008) and stood listening but mostly nodding approval at everything Matt said. After a few minutes I turned my attention back to the game and other friends/associates and wished Coach Alosa well.

So you can imagine my surprise and disbelief when I read Jeremy’s article with full on quotes from Matt Alosa. As I read it two things struck me 1) Wow…Matt has kept things pretty close to the vest as this investigation (is that what we’re calling it?) went on. The Union Leader and Concord Monitor have to be calling every week yet they weren’t getting anything short of a sound bite out of him (having been advised to do so by attorneys involved I’m sure) and here is Jeremy with all this material.

And 2) these quotes are the EXACT CONVERSATION Matt was having with me.

When Matt and I were talking we were,,talking,,this wasn't a press conference or an interview. I didn’t have a recording devise and neither did Jeremy. I remembered an incident a couple of years ago where Jim Mulvey wanted to ring Jeremy’s neck because he quoted him off the record and out of context…and here we were again. Or so I thought.

So I called Matt Alosa today and asked him straight out if Jeremy had told him he was using your quotes? Did he tell you were not only talking to me but you were being interviewed by his eavesdropping?

Matt told me he absolutely did not want Jeremy quoting him and not only that but Jeremy screwed up the quote. Matt was not only quoted off the record but misquoted at the same time.  He went on to explain he was having a conversation with me that was to remain between the two of us and anyone else listening…just not Jeremy’s few hundred readers.

So this brings us back to something I covered on my & Pete’s radio show during the Jimmy Stanley saga at Epping. I had 45 minute conversations with Epping coach Sean Young about the situation and never once used anything he didn’t want me to. I’ve had hours of conversations about Pembroke with coaches and will never use it. I protect these coaches because my integrity and reputation with their private details about the players & their programs is the most important aspect of my coverage. Not to go all Kirk Minihane on everyone but this is why people call us bloggers’ so derisively. It’s said for something like what Jeremy did and has done in the past. That’s why I flinch when I’m called a blogger or am ever lumped in with him.

It’s about integrity. Matt Alosa is not happy at all that Jeremy listened in on a conversation and presented it like an interview on the record. You might have liked the information and material but it was never meant to be read…and that’s something I couldn’t stay quiet about.

I asked Matt if I could use his feelings about Jeremy writing his column using those quotes and he said “Absolutely…do it.”

There is your Matt Alosa quote.

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Re: Pembroke Part II

Post  SeacoastDad on Wed May 21, 2014 4:57 pm

Minihane has rendered the D&C show unlistenable.

Just thought I'd change the subject for a minute....

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Re: Pembroke Part II

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