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Very interesting article

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Very interesting article

Post  jpsnh37 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:58 pm

Still can't believe the Monitor would look into something involving one of their area schools, but here it is:

http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/10197406-95/pembroke-academy-appeals-nhiaa-ruling-that-its-players-broke-the-rules

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  The Edge on Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:24 pm


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Oh My

Post  Hooper on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:21 pm



IF the rule was explained correctly in the article, and a player who moves for athletic purposes is ineligible for 1 year. It seems pretty cut and dry. Nothing against the education at PA but cmon...

Those kids got some seriously bad advice.

Going to D1 next year.. How's there JV team. They may not be bringing kids in anymore.


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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Twenty two on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:39 pm

You know, if Pembroke stunk nobody would care and this wouldn't even be an issue. Otis and Rhoades left their previous high schools at the start of their junior year as did Luke Testa this year to attend Trinity but that's okay because Trinity is a "private school". But they only did that for academic reasons right? Sure! Who doesn't want to play on a winning team, one that will give an athlete exposure he wouldn't otherwise have? You can argue that Rhoades was already on a winning basketball team where he was, but the fact is, Trinity had BOTH exceptional basketball AND football teams and Pembroke does not.

In regards to "not their 1st. time" a full investigation was conducted and not one single impropriety was discovered, you didn't link that article though. Not one of those boys in question had ever attended a solitary day of high school in the towns they moved from, they didn't jump around after two years of high school like everyone is allowed to do if they transfer into a parochial school. Why is it that there aren't consequences for doing that at tuition based schools?

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  The Edge on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:49 pm

Couldn't agree more with the "private Catholic school" comments. They are not held to the same standard. But that issue has been discussed on this forum to death.

But my reference to "not their 1st time" was regarding the Concord Monitor reporting not Pembroke's prior alleged discretion.

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Hooper on Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:09 pm

Granted it's a bad rule.

But can anyone say with a straight face that those kids didn't transfer to be a part of the basketball program. It's a great program, no one would blame anyone for wanting to be a part of it.

Academic purposes? Live in Suncook? With a straight face now say it

It will be interesting next year for them if they have to go D1 without bringing kids in.

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  bball101 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:23 am

I hate how kids transfer just to bandwagon onto a winning team, Its reminds me of nba free agency to be honest, the kids find it hard to win where they are so they take the easy way out and transfer. Wheres the pride of trying to win in ur home town with the kids u grew up with. Trinity Central and Pembroke are the Lakers Clippers Heat of highschool basketball, if the kids find it touch to win there gonna transfer there and all the other schools are the small market teams like the Raptors who there only hope of winning is to do it the right way but who knows maybe once they finally get that stud whos to say he wont get that south beach fever and transfer to Central or Trinity. Its a flawed system and by no way is it a fair playing field

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  dadncoach on Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:05 am

There is an additional article by Roger Brown in the UL on the topic. Having coached AAU and having seen the ins and outs of it today versus 5-10 years ago, the only reason these kids went to PA was to continue to play for the Alosas. I don't see any other scenario here. It is often said that kids do not listen to high school coaches anymore, but do what the AAU coach instrcuts them to. True reality. Also, do not let the parents off the hook here. They are the ulitmate decision-makers.

Finally, think the town people of Pembroke would have something to say about the Police spending time and money on surveillance related to a high school basketball issue?

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Re: Very Interesting Article

Post  NHRamFan on Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:18 pm

There's another topic that merits discussion along with this one: High School coaches pressuring their players to play for the AAU program they coach for. While there is nothing in the NHIAA rules regarding this to my knowledge, some coaches "encourage" their players to continue in the spring with a specific AAU program, oftentimes coached by....wait for it....the HS coach! I was recently told of a NH HS player whose parents, while not told specifically, felt that if their child DIDN'T play for the coach's AAU team, it may have a negative impact on the player's HS situation.
So....yet another issue to discuss. After all, some of these HS coaches get paid to coach AAU. And the players want to be successful in both arenas....a bit of an ethics quandary from where I sit. Yes, I know there are rules regarding the % of your team you can coach in the off season, but some are very creative in how they work around this rule; and as we know, some have ignored it outright!

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  newtothismom on Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:21 pm

Blame the high schools and athletic directors for the AAU issue. There appears to be a desire to hire the AAU coach by some schools. It's a rotten situation. The coaches take the high school job to give them credibility/credentials and it in turn helps them recruit for their AAU program and make a profit on the players. It's not just in basketball, all sports have been going down this road. I agree the NHIAA should be looking into coaches who coach private travel teams and the limit on players should be on the whole organization not just if the coach is specifically coaching them. They play games with rosters, everyone knows the coaches are around. It's wrong that the NHIAA picked on just Pembroke. There are many schools, public including, that have players transferring schools to play with the better team/coach. NHIAA has no business trying to get into the minds of players parents. If the parent moved they should be allowed to play unless your going to make all players sit out for moving.

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Twenty two on Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:23 pm

So many of you want to point your fingers and blame that bad guy Frank Alosa, who somehow wields this incredible power over all these families where he's able to convince them to up-root their lives and move to the middle of nowhere to play HIGH SCHOOL basketball for his son. Has it ever crossed your minds that these boys, who play for the Raiders AAU program, WANT to play high school ball TOGETHER, WITH their FRIENDS, share their high school experience, WITH their FRIENDS. For years, these boys have spent 6, sometimes 7 days a week with each other forming strong friendships because of basketball. They're not roaming the streets robbing gas stations or selling drugs, they are developing character and a work ethic that seems to be sadly lacking in today's youth. These boys have worked really hard to achieve their success and all this BS is ruining it for them. It was stated earlier that they didn't relocate to Suncook for "academics" obviously inferring something derogatory about the town. In this day and age you need a secondary education just to be able to live above the poverty level. Many of these boys would never have an opportunity to attend college if not for athletics, playing sports is their only way out because even in the most affluent towns not every child grows up to be a rocket scientist, not even those who transferred into Trinity for "academic" reasons. If they'd gone to Trinity/Brady/BG they'd be playing the game they love right now rather than sitting on the sidelines being forced to accept the collateral damage they've become.

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  JAF on Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:30 pm

hear hear "Twenty two"...

Add to that the parents may actually get along... I think I've heard more cases where parents of HS teams don't get along for a myriad of reasons. Go to any game - do all the parents on the team sit together? Do they cheer for the team or their child?

These AAU parents have spent time and money together with their kids. If they didn't like the other parents, didn't like the other players, and didn't like the coach - they'd find somewhere else to go. Sometimes they "put up with" things because the coach is just that good or that well known. In the end, they are trying to better their child's chances at getting a scholly and making sure their child is happy.

Also consider that coaches of AAU programs select not only players, but their parents with a few exceptions for some extremely talented players perhaps. But if you've got a parent complaining about play time, position, etc. etc., then jettison him/her since it's not worth the aggravation. Unlike a HS coach who knows leaving a player off a roster will inevitably mean a talk with the AD as to why or perhaps in some cases loss of their job if a parent goes above the school.

I think this is just a never ending issue and debate. The reality is it's just life's lessons starting early. It's not always what you know, but who you know. Knowing how to "play the game" in order to gain an advantage.

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Hoopfan4 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:53 am

Wow, JAF and 22, are you guys really advocating for players and parents being able to establish teams however they want based on friends and parent comfort level?  Forget about establishing rules and sticking to them vs. creating a free for all, which for once the NHIAA has got completely right. Sounds eerily familiar to what's going on in Washington these days - let's forget about the foundation of how something was built, we'll just re-write the rules as we go along no matter how wrong the agenda.  I'm sorry, but rules are rules and with the very broad exception of the private catholic schools, which I"m not sure how you navigate to be honest, you have to draw the line somewhere.  Reading this article and the one posted by Edge from a couple of years ago, this is a line that had to be drawn and drawn hard.  Kudos to the NHIAA for doing the right thing!

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  JAF on Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:18 am

If the NHIAA allows someone to "tuition into" a different school district for different reasons, then why are they stopping someone from moving into a district? Nashua South has (at least) 2 players (that I know of) on their basketball team that don't live in Nashua. One is a key player, the other more a cog in the wheel. No one complains about them though. One of them definitely went to South for athletic reasons (understandably and I don't have any issue with it). The other is at South for other reasons that are none of my business, but since he's local to my town I know who he is and a bit about his story. Suffice to say, I believe it was felt by his parents he wouldn't get a fair shake in town to play for the HS, so they found a way to get him to play with South. How they made that connection - I have no idea, but perhaps it was through AAU. I know the player and family is happy. But if you're going to have rules, then those rules should apply evenly to everyone right? So is it your belief that neither of those players should play for South? Or do you not care about South basketball, but perhaps care more about your home-town team that was affected? I have a vague recollection of a specific situation a few years ago involving someone from the Raymond area that played AAU ball and parents exhorting the family to move into the Exeter school district.

The problem PA has is there are (in some eyes jealous) people out there that for varying reasons make a fuss and the NHIAA is forced to "look into it". I know nothing of the players or situation in either this case or the one three years ago other than what I've read in the paper. From an outsiders point of view it seems someone doesn't like the AAU program run by the Alosa's. Does anyone really want to deny a player a chance to play ball? Is it really *that* important that he play ball for the HS in town? Has he ever played with the players in town? Lots of rhetorical questions that in the end are none of my business. For me, this is much ado about (in the end) nothing. It's HS sports in NH - there are far bigger problems to solve with the education system than whether a family would prefer to play for one coach/team over another. To compare it to the morass of BS that percolates in Washington isn't fair to those athletes or their families.

FWIW: A few years ago when this was brought up about Private/Catholic schools being able to take out of town players - I remember saying/writing it's very possible for parents to do something similar and move into specific school district if they so choose. I don't have the reference any more, but I do remember being laughed at and it being said that "no one" would do that. Hrmph - I guess they would and the reaction is the same.

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Hoopfan4 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:54 am

Absolutely the rules should apply.  I have zero knowledge of the South situation, and there are no articles to read, but if players / parents are finding ways to get around the rules, and they are identified, then I would have no problem with the NHIAA enforcing the rules.  I could care less about the home town team being disadvantaged, etc.   To be honest, if a player / family is so unhappy that they have to do somehting as drastic as uproot and enroll in another high school because of athletics, the hometown team is probably better off without them and the headaches they would bring. If that's the case and it's identified, the transfer rule says they have to sit out for a year - so that's what should happen.  Personally, in terms of life lessons, I still believe it's way more important to teach kids that when you have a challenge you have to find a way to work through it to achieve success vs. go the "who you know" route.  The values of hard work and figuring out ways to deal with issues on your own are the type of life lessons that will set kids up for a much easier time down the road.  Having Mom and Dad contnue to "solve" your problems at 16, 17, 18 years old, because you (or they) aren't happy with whatever the situation is sets a horrible example on how to handle things now and in the future. There is a clear rule / ramificaton for making that choice however - and it's sitting out a year.  Better for these kids to learn that part of lifes lessons this way - (i.e. that choices do have consequences and certain ones can lead to disappointment) - as opposed to down the road in college, career moves, etc., when the ramifications can be far more damaging / long lasting.

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Twenty two on Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:19 pm

Thanks for the support JAF!
A free for all, NO! A level playing field, YES! So private schools can have free reign but because public school parents might not have the financial ability to afford 10,000 a year to send their children to those schools they still have no right to move into the school district they choose? How about the NHIAA investigate where (not mentioning any specific names) boys from the Inner city for example, get the funds to attend those private schools? One can safely assume their tuition is being funded by a source other than their parent!! Is that not recruiting? With obvious financial benefit? Would those boys have been given that same opportunity to attend private school if they weren't playing basketball? If this controversy was just about the boys moving to Pembroke specifically for basketball and violating NHIAA rules then why is everyone tying in AAU/Alosa connection? Why should that have anything to do with this issue? It's no secret how Pat Corbin feels about Alosa and he's using this as his vehicle to stick it to him. As long as the NHIAA can pick and choose to whom the rules they establish are applied to, then as a parent, it is my choice, MY CHOICE, to decide where MY child goes.

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  dj5hoop on Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:26 pm

4 years goes by in the blink of an eye for high school athletes. Most won't play at the next level, yet, all will remember this time for the rest of their lives. Missing one year of this fleeting time hurts the player who is still just a kid. We all have choices in our lives. We are free to work for a different company in a different city, state or country. We may have a boss we can't deal with so we leave. Maybe it works or maybe we find out the grass wasn't greener on the other side. Sometimes these decisions set us back while other times it paves the way for better opportunities. This is how we all have consequences for our decisions. It is basically the same scenario for these basketball transfers. It is my opinion, if a family decides they want to do what's best for their kid by moving to another school district for academic and athletic reasons, then let it be. Clearly, in the Pembroke situation, rules must have been broken for the NHIAA not to let them play. Hopefully they did their homework because if not, and the rules were followed, the case would be headed to court which is apparently the case. As far as "recruiting violations", they are basically impossible to prove. When a high school program and an AAU program are so intertwined eyebrows will always be raised. Most high school coaches don't have good things to say about AAU. They keep their distance and for good reason.

So to put an end to my scattered thoughts, I feel bad for the players who have to sit out. I respect their decision to enroll in another school for whatever their reasons may be just as long as the rules were followed. The extent of the investigation is intriguing. As I said, it is a slippery slope the NHIAA would be walking if they don't have evidence of any wrong doing.


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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Tuesday and Friday on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:43 pm

I have 2 thoughts:

1) Hoopfan4's post at 6:54 is one of the best posts I've seen on the Forum in a while.

2) I think coaches, ADs and administrator's tolerance for transfers due to sport's reasons is at an all time low. In talking to some of these people I think they are fed up with dealing with transfers. If I was a player or parent thinking of transferring for cough cough

"sports reasons"

I would think long and hard and have my Is dotted and Ts crossed THOUROUGHLY before a chance is taken your son or daughter loses out on 25% of their HS athletic career.

The transfer situation is now in a real big spotlight.

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Hoopfan4 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:38 pm

Twenty two - you are 100% correct that it is your choice where your child goes to school. However, each school agrees to be governed by the rules established by the NHIAA. Your choice on where your child goes to school does not entitle you or the school to disregard the rules they have all agreed to be governed by - namely making a move strictly for athletic purposes and then being immediately eligible to play. Say what you want about the rule and how its enforced, but that's the rule all schools have agreed to abide by. In this particular instance, going by what I read in the article, including the comments made by the NHIAA, there appears to be black and white facts behind the decision to enforce the rule here. To T&F's comments, people better have all of their i's dotted and t's crossed when making a decision to move their child to whatever school they choose. It doesn't come with a free pass to disregard the rules established to govern athletic play and eligibility as much as some may like to believe it should.

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Hooper on Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:02 pm

They moved for athletic purposes, they sit out one year. That's the rule. Case closed.

We can argue on the validity of the rule ( I agree it is a can of worms). We can argue about all the spineless people who have not enforced this rule, setting up the failure of these kids. We can argue that private schools have an unfair advantage. But these are all different topics

The tragedy is the bad advice these kids got (and we will never know from who, parents, FA, the Alosa posse?) the lack of institutional control by PA and the constant consistent lying about it. A long time ago (most of the players on the PA team that play did not attend a feeding school system to Pembroke.) Pembroke administration should have dealt with this. This has tarnished the hard work of some excellent coaches and players.

Will the Coach stay? I bet no



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Re: Very interesting article

Post  JAF on Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:28 pm

What standard is used to decide if someone moved solely for athletic purposes? Who do you believe? Are there no extenuating circumstances? Who is to decide what is best for the student/athlete?

Not always easy questions in order to make the determination to force someone to sit. It's a tough rule to prove without some doubt lingering. The point about the south situation is it's not a blanket rule and there valid reasons for something like this to happen. Like being able to play ball for your dad in a division 1 school and get a scholly to play ball at the next level.

So to me it's less of a rule and more of a policy.


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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Bigballerboy on Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:14 am

Everyone is just jealous of pembroke, and everyone loves to have drama to talk about. Everyone on this is just looking for something to talk about, this is supposed to be for the kids just let them play and get on with your life.

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Hooper on Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:32 am

I guess BBB is pro free for all

In an earlier post I made a tongue in cheek remark about going to PA for Academic reasons or just wanting to live in Suncook.

If you read it you might think I was calling Suncook people stupid. Not my intent, Sorry if I offended.

My intent was it would be a high coincidence to move to Suncook because you love Suncook and it just happens to be in the PA district.

Not jealous of PA, I respect there coach's ability and the hard work the kids put in.



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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Bigballerboy on Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:09 pm

PA is so good

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Re: Very interesting article

Post  Bigballerboy on Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:16 pm

Everyone replying on this we site is parents who were never good in high school. (Deleted comment by moderator for baiting name calling of all other posters which is not allowed under TOS). like I said before, if someone wants to transfer and you don't in force the rules all the time then it is really unfair just because Pembroke is good doesn't make it okay. I think you people should worry about bigger things in life other than your kids high school sport! (Comment deleted by moderator for insulting tone which has nothing to do with the point of argument).


Last edited by Tulliver on Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Please do not insult other posters -even the group as a whole - as it is violating our terms of service. This should be considered a warning.)

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Re: Very interesting article

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