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3 Refs not a fan

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3 Refs

Post  rwvogeley on Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:48 am

I think tht the points that T&F and JAF are right on the money. The amount of cheap grabs and holds on the weak side need to be cleaned up, along with the hand checking.Setting weak side screens , it is the major part of most offenses. Too many time a screen is moving , either their waist or upper body to make contact withthe defensive player. This is illegal mand needs to be called before some player gets hurt. One way to eliminate this is that the coaches teach how to set a screen. ie the screen will be at point x, and the offensive player needs to know how to sell the screen.
The toughest call for a ref is not when a player sets a screen for a pick and roll, but when the player goes to set a screen, but at the last moment, rolls to the hoop. On the BG girls team they seem to be real good at it.This will take some time and consistency by the officials to iron out this situation.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  CasualFan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:25 am

Great thread on 2 vs 3 refs. My only observation from watching this years playoff games with 3 refs, is the game are missing a flow to them. I hear whistles more than basketballs bouncing. Definitely agree with most on here that keeping the same amount of refs throughout the season & playoffs makes for better basketball watching pleasure. Smile

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  goldenbear on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:51 pm

Three refs had zero impact on the semi's no key players in any game where in foul trouble or fouled out.


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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  EBlessNHSP on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:54 pm

Now now....

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  JustinMcIsaac on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:02 am

goldenbear wrote:Three refs had zero impact on the semi's no key players in any game where in foul trouble or fouled out.


cheers

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  SeacoastDad on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:04 am

goldenbear wrote:Three refs had zero impact on the semi's no key players in any game where in foul trouble or fouled out.

Spaulding's best player (Dominic Paradis) fouled out with just over 3 minutes remaining and his team up by 1. Not commenting on the officiating, just clarifying.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  goldenbear on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:06 am

EBlessNHSP wrote:Now now....

I am sorry the kids invest a lot of time and energy and see a kid like Pradis foul out which cost his team the game ( could not attack 1-2-2 with out him) was just not right. Those Rochester kids had put so much into their program and the kids deserved to decide the game. Same with BG in the first half both bigs with 3 fouls that had no impact on the game at all. Though Joe Maradola stepped up big time love the kid ( one of the member of my u 16 titan team I coached last year.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  goldenbear on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:07 am

SeacoastDad wrote:
goldenbear wrote:Three refs had zero impact on the semi's no key players in any game where in foul trouble or fouled out.

Spaulding's best player (Dominic Paradis) fouled out with just over 3 minutes remaining and his team up by 1. Not commenting on the officiating, just clarifying.

i was being sarcastic

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  SeacoastDad on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:10 am

goldenbear wrote:
SeacoastDad wrote:
goldenbear wrote:Three refs had zero impact on the semi's no key players in any game where in foul trouble or fouled out.

Spaulding's best player (Dominic Paradis) fouled out with just over 3 minutes remaining and his team up by 1. Not commenting on the officiating, just clarifying.

i was being sarcastic

Sorry, didn't catch the sarcasm.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:11 am

I don't even have to see the game to know the refs did not win/lose the game. I'll stick to that in 100% of games I've ever played/seen/listened to. Just my opinion. Too many plays lead up to the final score to blame it on officials. It's a pathetic cop out that homers tend to revert to after the game.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  goldenbear on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:12 am

And seacost dad they were up 3, though Toscano hit the 2 ft to cut it to one on Dom 5th foul.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  goldenbear on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:15 am

EBlessNHSP wrote:I don't even have to see the game to know the refs did not win/lose the game. I'll stick to that in 100% of games I've ever played/seen/listened to. Just my opinion. Too many plays lead up to the final score to blame it on officials. It's a pathetic cop out that homers tend to revert to after the game.

And it is my opinion refs have a huge impact on a way the game is called and thus played.

And they cost team games all the time in many supports, but I am not going to resort to name calling like you did.


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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  goldenbear on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:16 am

EBlessNHSP wrote:I don't even have to see the game to know the refs did not win/lose the game. I'll stick to that in 100% of games I've ever played/seen/listened to. Just my opinion. Too many plays lead up to the final score to blame it on officials. It's a pathetic cop out that homers tend to revert to after the game.


Did you watch the Packers Seahawks game.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:19 am

General statement not name calling. When a teams fans lose they blame the refs. If you follow sports it's a pretty prevalent occurrence. No biggie...don't take it personally.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  goldenbear on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:21 am

You say there are so many plays, and I say every play and call matters.

Tim Preston 5 or 6 turnovers cost South the game as well along with David Dunham and Vinne O miss ft at the end of the game, there are tons of things that go into the game, but every little thing matters.

As well as Carmen G great all around game and Mabor dominating J. Preston inside.






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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:23 am

goldenbear wrote:
EBlessNHSP wrote:I don't even have to see the game to know the refs did not win/lose the game. I'll stick to that in 100% of games I've ever played/seen/listened to. Just my opinion. Too many plays lead up to the final score to blame it on officials. It's a pathetic cop out that homers tend to revert to after the game.


Did you watch the Packers Seahawks game.

Yea...refs didn't lose that game in my opinion. 100 or so plays that led to that play did. Packers should never have let that game come down to a single play. It's so easy to blame somebody else, we do that too much these days. Make plays earlier in the game and that situation never occurs. So...in my own opinion...refs didn't decide that game either, they decided that play, but not the game.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  goldenbear on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:24 am

EBlessNHSP wrote:General statement not name calling. When a teams fans lose they blame the refs. If you follow sports it's a pretty prevalent occurrence. No biggie...don't take it personally.


Not taken is personal but I made my point about the 3 refs after South Beat Dover and tonight there were two great games and kids played well for all 4 teams.But the way the games were called impacted the flow and the play of the game. Trinity was in double bonus in the first quarter.


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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:25 am

goldenbear wrote:You say there are so many plays, and I say every play and call matters.

Tim Preston 5 or 6 turnovers cost South the game as well along with David Dunham and Vinne O miss ft at the end of the game, there are tons of things that go into the game, but every little thing matters.

As well as Carmen G great all around game and Mabor dominating J. Preston inside.

Agreed! Every play matters! Which is why an official cant decide a game.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  goldenbear on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:27 am

EBlessNHSP wrote:
goldenbear wrote:
EBlessNHSP wrote:I don't even have to see the game to know the refs did not win/lose the game. I'll stick to that in 100% of games I've ever played/seen/listened to. Just my opinion. Too many plays lead up to the final score to blame it on officials. It's a pathetic cop out that homers tend to revert to after the game.


Did you watch the Packers Seahawks game.

Yea...refs didn't lose that game in my opinion. 100 or so plays that led to that play did. Packers should never have let that game come down to a single play. It's so easy to blame somebody else, we do that too much these days. Make plays earlier in the game and that situation never occurs. So...in my own opinion...refs didn't decide that game either, they decided that play, but not the game.

But the play decided the game, but I wont convince you and I 100% you will never convince me so we will just agree to disagree.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:30 am

goldenbear wrote:
But the play decided the game, but I wont convince you and I 100% you will never convince me so we will just agree to disagree.

I actually love when a discussion ends this way in sports. No wrong answer really. Just two passionate opinions. I can respect that even if I don't agree.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  goldenbear on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:31 am

EBlessNHSP wrote:
goldenbear wrote:You say there are so many plays, and I say every play and call matters.

Tim Preston 5 or 6 turnovers cost South the game as well along with David Dunham and Vinne O miss ft at the end of the game, there are tons of things that go into the game, but every little thing matters.

As well as Carmen G great all around game and Mabor dominating J. Preston inside.

Agreed! Every play matters! Which is why an official cant decide a game.

Yes but you look at those 100 plays as individual moments and I look at those 100 plays as all related, a hypothetical charge is called that should have been a block it cost one team two points and puts there best player on the bench with 3 fouls. From that point on the game as been changed and effected now you can still win the game by changing the impact of the next 80 plays but play 19 cost you and effects the way the rest of the game is going to go.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  EBlessNHSP on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:35 am

We're approaching "Inception" levels at 11:34 pm here goldenbear. That argument works both ways...

Maybe SeacoastDad can come up with an algorithm we can punch into a database simulator to come up with some hypothetical scenarios for us Very Happy

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  TooClutch on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:38 am

Im loving these quotes inside of quotes you guys got goin!

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  goldenbear on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:42 am

EBlessNHSP wrote:We're approaching "Inception" levels at 11:34 pm here goldenbear. That argument works both ways...

Maybe SeacoastDad can come up with an algorithm we can punch into a database simulator to come up with some hypothetical scenarios for us Very Happy

I was going to go Doc Brown and Marty Mcfly on you, and talk about alternative time lines.

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Re: 3 Refs not a fan

Post  JAF on Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:07 am


I actually thought the referees let the BG/SHS kids play quite a bit. They called a couple of touch fouls, but also quite a few of those hand checks that get a lot of virtual ink. In the post, I saw Lunn getting held quite a few times with no call. For the most part the SHS players were tactful in the first half with their play. BG was in foul trouble long before SHS which is the norm. Having your bigs on the bench for a good part of the 2nd doesn't bode well. SHS did what they had to do by outrebounding, outplaying, and outscoring BG in that quarter.

The play Paradis fouled out on was one where BG would have been on a breakaway. - he should have just let it happen Some may ask if Paradis was fouled to lose the ball to Toscano, but I didn't think so - I think he just got a bit careless and left it exposed. When Toscano stole it, he did the only natural thing - fouled him. It was a sure 2 points. He has to know he's playing with 4. On the other hand, Lunn playing with 4 let a drive or two go by without "over committing". Sure his 4th foul was dumb, but lets face it - he knew how to play with 4. Paradis knew he had 4 and that there was a lot of time left and should have just let it go. What about the block foul that knocked out Toscano - earlier in the game a player got the charge call on a similar play. Whether Toscano had his feet set and body square to his opponent is pure referee judgement. But with him out, the hands of the BG offense in a TIE game rested on a freshman. I was shocked that SHS didn't double team him sooner. As for the last foul which put Lunn on the line with 2.9 - well it had been called all game, player drives to basket, gets knocked on the shot, gets foul called. It was at the other end from me, but I wasn't surprised that it was called.

The difference in the game to me was not the referees, but rather the coaching. SHS couldn't figure out the press in the 3rd and I don't believe their coach ever used a timeout as BG whittled the 13 point halftime deficit down to nothing. The SHS players in the 2nd were taking that 5-10 ft jumper and making it, but when things got tight in the 3rd/4th, even though they had the open looks they were passing out to the perimeter to Paradis more often than not. To me that says there were getting tight and nervous.

In the end, depth won out and Toscano played huge - congrats to him.

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