Recruiting

Ryan Maloney has committed to UMass Amherst. In regards to how he was recruited, it came through his exposure playing for Northeast Baseball last summer. My son played for the same program and was a year ahead of Maloney. He also played AAU ball with him for several years. He's a very good pitcher. I also think that his size projects well at the D1 level and college coaches certainly have a preference for a tall righty (he's around 6 foot 2 or more)

I will say that from my experience, with a son who is now playing D1 ball, what you do in High School means next to nothing. None of the 7 or 8 teams that recruited my son even asked what he did in High School or talked to his HS coach (thank God.) College coaches, for the most part, don't scout HS games as they are knee deep in their own season and from a pitching perspective, they aren't going to learn much watching a kid pitch against a lineup that likely has no more than one kid that will play at the next level. They want to see them play against college level talent. The exceptions would be a local school like St. Anselms. I've seen some of their coaches hit a HS game, probably because they have an off day and they were able to catch a game at a HS close to Goffstown.

What they do scout is summer showcase tournaments, Area Code tryouts, Perfect Game tournaments, and of course the World Woodbat tournament in East Cobb Georgia. I would imagine some also scout Legion during the summer but I've never had an involvement with Legion so can't say for sure.

Justgivemethefacts wrote:
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Like I said, baseball can be a cruel sport, pitchers should receive grief counseling, but count me, there is no more fascinating game to watch.

You had me laughing at this! I can totally relate as my college son is going to need that to go along with quite a few hours spent on the psychologist's couch trying to understand why the fielders cannot catch easy fly balls, make simple throws to 1B, turn a double play, and sometimes in general act as if they care out there. Sometimes they'll make a spectacular play, but it's the routine ones that aren't made that drive pitchers NUTS. It's not "easy" to "forget" your last outing - you pitch your butt off (or your fellow pitcher pitches his off) and it's all for naught because of things you cannot control. The next time you go out and the same players are making the same errors on similar routine plays.... and then you get taken out.

If a pitcher "gives up" 6 runs in an inning (none of which are earned) - who gets taken out? Easier to lift the pitcher (one player), than remove the other players not doing their job. I'm still waiting for the day I see a coach call time, walk out to SS and have a conference with him to determine whether or not he has it that day or if he thinks he can actually make the next play. No pitcher is going to strike out every batter. When the coach asks you to roll a ground ball and you induce multiple ground balls in an inning, but your fielders don't make the play - that has got to be extremely frustrating.

Another baseball axiom - put your best hitter who's not much of a fielder in the field somewhere and the baseball will find him defensively more often than not. There's a song about that right, it's starts "Out here in right field..."...

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Another baseball axiom - put your best hitter who's not much of a fielder in the field somewhere and the baseball will find him defensively more often than not. There's a song about that right, it's starts "Out here in right field..."...

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Might not be the same one you're thinking of, but this one (like all their songs) brings a smile to my face and (sometimes) a tear to my eye. What can I say, I'm a sap (and not too proud to admit it!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AjY25rW1CE

baseball23 wrote:I think D-2 is going to be everyone chasing Goffstown. Pembroke is also off to a good start.

Goffstown has some good arms. I know of Barss who has committed to URI. They are my favorite to win everything this year but in a 1 game matchup you never know.

Another team to watch out for is ConVal. They have 2 very good pitchers. Taylor Doyle is going to Delta State next year and supposedly was topping out around 89 last fall and junior Ivan Clough has a great arm and I heard he was consistently in the upper 80's in the Showcase League last fall. That's a nice recipe to move thru the tournament.

Also, Merrimack Valley has David Drouin who is very talented. Pembroke has Autrey Gates.

I know there are a lot of good pitchers in D1 but D2 this year I think has some of the top arms as well.

Crazy,
Here we go again, someone taking their own experience with the college process and touting it as gospel. Didn't we have this same discussion last year? Different colleges recruit specific to their programs. Having the luxury of being able to watch a lot of high school games and knowing many coaches in high school and college I know that colleges DO, in fact, talk to high school coaches and go to high school games.
It sounds like your son didn't have a good high school experience, that doesn't mean it is pointless for every other player.
I am not trying to be nasty and I am happy for you that your son is playing in college, but try not to insist your experience is the only experience.
The bottom line is that if you are good enough you will be seen, either in high school, showcases, Legion ball, or AAU.

nhball9, yes it seems like I said something similar a year ago and you didn't agree with it then either. That's fine, you can have your opinion. My point was to qualify a previous poster's opinion on Maloney. He said he had seen him pitch many times for Londonderry and wasn't impressed, not a fan, so on and so forth. My point also was that UMass wouldn't care about that as they had seen him other times against far better competition and made their decision based on that. Also, having gone through the recruiting process with UMass, other than perhaps going to the Londonderry pitching showcase that their coach graciously holds each year, I'm willing to bet they never saw him throw a single high school pitch. As of a year ago, they were not a fully funded program and had less than three full scholarships per year to slice up. They don't have a huge staff by any means that can chase high school players in NH while they are in season.

I think I left room for some exceptions where a college could scout a high school game. But the vast of exposure for an NH high school player is going to take place in the summer before their senior year and with a team other than their HS. It's not just my personal experience, it's a fact. Lastly, yes, my son's HS coach was and is an embarrassment and I would never want his opinion of any kid to be heard by an interested college. His M.O. is to routinely blow kids arms out by having them throw up to 130-140 pitches a game if they are in the lead.

I don't know if can fundamentally disagree with what Carl says.

But the vast of exposure for an NH high school player is going to take place in the summer before their senior year and with a team other than their HS. It's not just my personal experience, it's a fact.

I think this statement is true. I suppose if I hit .850 for my 18-20 game high school season and play legion, scouts will hear about me, but I have to believe that most of the young men who get mentioned in this blog as being D1 commits, play summer ball with travel teams or have attended showcases. A few players that I know of or believe that I know of, I list below....correct me if I am wrong.
Barss was seen at a tournament throwing gas, amazing what a radar gun will do.
Doyle attends showcases.
Carmen G. attended a showcase and BG spotted him
LaLonde showcases and tournaments with The Show Baseball Academy.
Fortin tournaments with Northeast Baseball I believe.
Maloney the same.

Yes, a rehash - but we have new followers this year.

If you are looking to play D1 Baseball I think the avenue CrazyCarl describes probably is the way that "many" players get there. I have no qualified data to back it up other than what I read. Head over to the High School Baseball Web (http://community.hsbaseballweb.com/forums) as there is an abundance of people there willing to share their stories and experience.

In NH - I dare say the vast majority of players that have the ability and desire to play in college could end up at a D2/D3 school - more than likely D3. There's plenty of D2 action in the greater Manchester area - go watch it if you want to see for yourself. Don't have time to go to a game... hmm.. think about that in reverse from the viewpoint of a college coach.

College coaches coming to a single high school game is unusual, but it does happen. Many will come for pregame warmups and stay a few innings. There's a lot to be said about a player in the manner he prepares himself to play. I think you'll see college coaches do come to semi final and final events. They can see many players against similar competition. They do show up at the State Legion tourney as well - same reason. Some don't wear their colors at these events because it gets tiring shaking every expectants father's hand... And to be clear - I've usually seen D2/D3 coaches - although a few D1's show up.

Your best shot to be recruited is knowledge of the process - each school and division does things differently. You have to know what you want, target those schools, and have a backup plan. No different than trying to academically get into schools - reach vs. safety. Be sure you know the conferences and the "level" they play within each division. Visit competing schools in a conference - you can learn a lot about your target from what an opponent thinks...

Well said JAF!
Carl, it is NOT fact but I can agree to disagree. But, unless I'm mistaken, you think players would be better off just working out for these businesses AAU programs rather than go through the high school season? I wonder if parents who invest heavily in these AAU programs to get their son noticed ever make their money back via scholarships? I hope that didn't come across as harsh, if we were talking face to face you would see I am seriously asking about this- but you can't always tell over text.

Not wanting to speak for Carl, but I never felt he was giving an either or. Either you play HS or you play Showcase. Without a doubt, you do both. Showcase teams will not begin their game schedules until middle of June. There is no need to choose one over another. The unfortunate problem...you must choose Showcase over Legion. Legions compressed schedule conflicts greatly with the tournaments for a Showcase team.

Showcase teams are all about getting their players to the next level. That's how they keep the program going. Look up The Show Baseball Academy, Lawrence, MA. Check their web-site and see the list of boys they helped get into college. Barss and La Londe are two from NH.

I'm sorry that Carl and his son had a bad experience with HS baseball, but I kind of blame it on a parent if their son is throwing 130-140 pitches in a HS game. Speak up. Showcase coaches from my experience don't do this. Although I have seen, as well as heard of, some AAU coaches who have done that. I actually did the book in a 13 year old AAU game a few years back when an opposing AAU coach had his kid throw 135.

It is true that College recruitment is mainly done through Showcase tournaments and college camps. You have to go to camps to meet the coaches and they need to see a player get reps in the field. I have heard college coaches say they would not take a player without seeing them in camps. At games a player may never have a ball hit his way, and at most showcase games they don't allow infield practice before a game.
The coaches want to see you at a camp and then they want to see you at showcase games where they travel and can see many players. They go to Diamond Nation and East Cobb where they can see many players at once.
Where High School comes into play is for MLB scouts not college. They go to High School games before the draft. Of coarse that is assuming there is MLB type quality players to look at. It is really the last time they can see a player before the draft.

I appreciate the feedback here. To clarify...schools did contact my son's high school coach but they were primarily local D3 and lower quality D2 that he was not interested in. I don't want to come across as snobbish, but a goal of his was to play D1. My point was that the schools he was interested in at the D1 level did not approach his HS coach as they had seen him on summer teams and at other national tryouts.

In regards to AAU...that's an interesting point. They also have very little to do with college exposure. Colleges don't care to look at a kid until he is 17 for the most part...of course there are exceptions (see Bryce Harper.) but they are rare. What AAU did was allow him play at a high level from 13-15. Yes...it was expensive, but he was also introduced to a pitching coach that he still works with and was a huge factor in his development. In hindsight if I knew he was going to be a pitcher only, I probably would have invested in lessons only. AAU baseball today is so watered down here locally that I would be very careful about picking a program for a young player.

To my point about his lousy HS coach....he communicated to the coach that he wanted a 90 pitch limit. The coach for the most part complied. I didn't get involved, I let him handle that himself. For the 4 years he played Varsity I witnessed kids regularly pitch more than 100 pitches and frequently throw 120 to 145 if they had a lead. I can only protect my own but I felt bad for the kids that as they worked through the program and couldn't pitch as seniors because they had arm and shoulder injuries. It's disgraceful.

nhball9 wrote:Well said JAF!
Carl, it is NOT fact but I can agree to disagree. But, unless I'm mistaken, you think players would be better off just working out for these businesses AAU programs rather than go through the high school season? I wonder if parents who invest heavily in these AAU programs to get their son noticed ever make their money back via scholarships? I hope that didn't come across as harsh, if we were talking face to face you would see I am seriously asking about this- but you can't always tell over text.

Never said that HS was useless. Of course you should play for your high school, with your friends that you've played with since tee-ball, as well as for the baseball activity. My point is that if your goal was to play at the next highest level, D1 schools, for the most part, don't put much stock in it.

I think I clarified my stance on AAU with my prior post. Lot's of money grabbing parent run programs popped up over the last decade. Complete waste of time and money. My team of choice proved to be a good investment but, there were weekends where it wasn't that fun watching his team play a doubleheader and mercy ruling a team in both games. Buyer beware.

D1 recruiting can get expensive. All of the coaches run prospect camps which also serve as income sources, and players are encouraged to attend if interested in the school. At $125-$250 or more per day/school, if you are looking at 6-10 schools that can add up. With travel and hotel costs, the time commitment, it is quite an ordeal. One parent questions whether or not you make your money back by investing in travel teams, showcase events etc., but for most kids it is a necessary evil if they want to get a partial scholarship and a "slot" on the roster. Unless you are a pitcher and get pitcher money vs. positional money, justification based on scholarship money is a stretch. Not sure of the success rate for walk-ons, but it is part of playing the game. I don't look at it as a way to make my money back for the years of ball, lessons, equipment, travel etc., I look at it as giving my son the opportunity to be the best he can be, experience the sport he loves to the max, and if it leads to the next level and a reduced tuition bill and a way to extend his playing days, so be it.

baseball23 wrote:D1 recruiting can get expensive. All of the coaches run prospect camps which also serve as income sources, and players are encouraged to attend if interested in the school. At $125-$250 or more per day/school, if you are looking at 6-10 schools that can add up. With travel and hotel costs, the time commitment, it is quite an ordeal. One parent questions whether or not you make your money back by investing in travel teams, showcase events etc., but for most kids it is a necessary evil if they want to get a partial scholarship and a "slot" on the roster. Unless you are a pitcher and get pitcher money vs. positional money, justification based on scholarship money is a stretch. Not sure of the success rate for walk-ons, but it is part of playing the game. I don't look at it as a way to make my money back for the years of ball, lessons, equipment, travel etc., I look at it as giving my son the opportunity to be the best he can be, experience the sport he loves to the max, and if it leads to the next level and a reduced tuition bill and a way to extend his playing days, so be it.

College camps are fundraisers for the team. Believe me, if they want you bad enough and you've never attended their camp, they'll still offer.

Certainly in some cases that applies, but you have to cross paths at some point to get on the school's radar. To force the issue, sometimes you have to make the effort and absorb the cost. Schools that are within our immediate region are likely to find out about the talent in NH and figure out a way to evaluate. Schools at a distance will not make trips here to see a high school game while their season is in full swing and you have to weight the options. Just attending showcase events and tourneys doesn't guarantee the school you are interested in will be attending or will see your game or will see your great performance. To get the reps, the one-on-one analysis and focused evaluation at the school prospect camp is worth it, it just comes at a price.

Camps are fund raisers for the team but they also serve an important purpose. Carl they won't want you if they don't know you. You need to get noticed first and camps are an important way to do that. Whether
they make money or not is irrelevant.

baseball23 wrote:Certainly in some cases that applies, but you have to cross paths at some point to get on the school's radar. To force the issue, sometimes you have to make the effort and absorb the cost. Schools that are within our immediate region are likely to find out about the talent in NH and figure out a way to evaluate. Schools at a distance will not make trips here to see a high school game while their season is in full swing and you have to weight the options. Just attending showcase events and tourneys doesn't guarantee the school you are interested in will be attending or will see your game or will see your great performance. To get the reps, the one-on-one analysis and focused evaluation at the school prospect camp is worth it, it just comes at a price.

Agreed...if you have targeted the particular school that is hosting the showcase it's likely a worthwhile investment. Locally, if you can get into the Lynn Invitational, any local showcase college has a presence there and you get the same exposure for pennies on the dollar.

JAF wrote:I think this deserves it's own main topic - it'll be easier to find that way rather than chew up responses in another topic..

I'll move replies from the 2013 thread into here

Nice call. If you follow HS baseball Web they blanket this topic from coast to coast with tremendous feedback. One person's experience may not be the norm, but it can help one player advance to the next level which is really my primary point. I want NH kids to play baseball at the highest level and share how they can accomplish that if they have the desire and potential.

Carl, Thanks for the feedback. I was sincerely asking about the whole AAU/showcase issue with regards to cost vs. reward. I think it is sad that it had gotten to this point. Fifteen years ago you didn't see these AAU/businesses around. If you happen to see one they were legitimate elite teams. Now they encourage anybody with a checkbook to show up and it does water down the competition. If you also take into account how now these AAU coaches fill these kids heads with how "great" they are from an early age, where is the motivation to actually work to get better? It doesn't exist. I want to point out this is not aimed at anyone in particular, I am just venting in general!

nhball9 wrote:Carl, Thanks for the feedback. I was sincerely asking about the whole AAU/showcase issue with regards to cost vs. reward. I think it is sad that it had gotten to this point. Fifteen years ago you didn't see these AAU/businesses around. If you happen to see one they were legitimate elite teams. Now they encourage anybody with a checkbook to show up and it does water down the competition. If you also take into account how now these AAU coaches fill these kids heads with how "great" they are from an early age, where is the motivation to actually work to get better? It doesn't exist. I want to point out this is not aimed at anyone in particular, I am just venting in general!

We are in agreement. AAU in general is turning into a money-making cesspool. The team my kid played on has actually left AAU and formed and independent league. I can't tell you that it's any better, but I applaud them for trying to get out of the mix.

On a side note, I'm happy there are people like you that are passionate about NH baseball. We can agree on that. If anyone wants to leverage my experience on how to navigate through the BS and not pay more money than is required I'm more than happy to provide my feedback. It may not work for all but it worked for us.

The new local program is called New England Elite Baseball (http://www.elitebaseballleague.com/) - it was put together by a group of former AAU teams. All I heard was the split was messy and ugly. But the reality is they are much the same as the AAU programs - it's a volume business with the eye towards keeping baseball competitive.

AAU/NEB may be money making businesses and watered down from 10-15 years ago, but let's face it town/rec ball is not very good, thus for those of us looking to get better competition it fills a void. In a way though it does get you prepared for college recruiting too as you need to visit multiple programs, pay their tryout fee, talk with the coaches about their philosophy, determine your child's relative level of strength vs. his peers, and then start paying for the experience. You'll get some away tournies, live in a hotel for a few days or a week - not unlike the college team...

I do think it's becoming more difficult for kids to be "found" now with so many teams/programs out there. The natural evolution of AAU/NEB is these travelling teams like Northeast Baseball and the Show which will allow your child to play at the next level at locations known to be hangouts for college coaches recruiting players.

But still they don't guarantee you anything. You still need to make contacts yourself. Again - targeting the schools you're interested in ask the coaches what showcases and/or tournies they attend in the summer. If your travel team is at one of those, make sure the coach knows the schedule and your child's team/number. Rarely is someone "just discovered" - because let's face it they are probably already known about in recruiting circles. A kid throwing 95 doesn't just show up - he's known about, coaches are there to see him, and perhaps if they get lucky while watching him they may find another gem. If they can double down and know that someone interested in their program will be playing, that's good for them.

It's not easy, it does cost money, but usually the end justifies it. While D1/D2 programs can offer scholly money - most aren't fully funded - so don't expect much. D3 cannot offer athletic scholly's, but they do have other ways to get money to athletes, especially the better students. When college costs $40-50K/year getting any money helps... Being a good student might allow a good baseball player to get into an academic reach school as well. Of course in that case, academic money is a bit harder to justify because of who you're being compared against.

One other thought - don't choose a school "just because" of the baseball program (this goes for other sports as well) - make sure you like the school. I call this the broken leg or tommy john test - if you get injured/cannot play your sport - will you still be happy?

People who have been "through the process" are generally very happy to help - while visiting a campus, get to a game, talk with the other parents. The HS Baseball Web (http://community.hsbaseballweb.com/forums) is truly a treasure trove of good ideas and people willing to share their experience - there are a few trolls there, but it's less than 10% of the contributors.

I would have to agree with most that has been posted, especially Crazy Carl. I have a son who is a Junior and not a pitcher. I will be shocked if I see a college recruiter at one of his games this spring. He plays for a summer College Development team similar to NorthEast baseball, and there are almost always college scouts at those games. The fact that he plays in a cold weather state, and in a high school division under DI in NH practically dictates that the larger college D1 programs will only see him during the summer. Like some of the others, he played in the AAU/New England Elite, then went on to a Development team from Massachusetts during his sophomore year last year. He gets great exposure having played at Diamond Nation, East Cobb, as well as different tourneys in South Carolina and Alabama, CT, Mass, etc. last year. He's getting plenty of contact from solid D1 programs, and we are hopeful that the critical Junior summer will produce a few more. Ironically, he's getting limited contact from the programs in NH, so far only two of them. He was fortunate to get an Area Code invite and I'm told that is heavily recruited too. None of this came about because of his success in high school (they were very, very successful last year), it's all a result of a solid summer travel team. He has not played Legion or in the Fall Showcase League. That doesn't mean those aren't viable avenues as well, I just know the path my son has taken so far produced good results.

Finally, I would agree with those saying that HS Baseball Web is a great resource.

New Hampshire Sports Page will be announcing some exciting recruiting-based services in the next few months. We hope to be another outlet to help your kids get noticed - whether they're a D1, D2, or D3 collegiate talent. Stay tuned...

Eliot when you say, " recruiting based services" will u be making player rankings similar to what nhnotebook does because I think that would be a great because you guys see enough basketball to make great prospect rankings